I got to install three Centric calipers on Geronimo. Their rust protection is vastly worse than the Volvo rebuilds. I'm guessing they are painted based on a few spots which looked like light application over rusty metal. At first, this looks better than the Volvo rebuilds which are powder and clear coated over base metal which flash rusted, blistering up through the coating.
The first Centric caliper I installed became entirely surface rusted in two weeks. During that time, the car was driven four miles, parked on gravel, and experienced two brief rain storms. It was not exposed to any road salt.
The second Centric caliper I installed had started to surface rust after only eight days, two miles of driving, and one rain storm.
Compare these to the NAPA Total Eclipse calipers (actually Cardone) previously on the car. In the below picture, the right was installed under 2 years and 3000 miles ago. Its black coating is firmly attached, showing only a few spots of rust breaking through. Its piston easily extends and can be pressed in by hand. It is back on the car working great. The left was installed 3.5 years and 32k miles ago. Its piston head is severely rusted and a cut boot caused it to rust in place in the bore. Like the Volvo rebuilds, it appears that it is surface rusting beneath its black coating, causing the coating to flake off. Still, its caliper bracket was nicely coated (except for rust spots right where the pad ears wore away the black coating; the most important part). Maybe that would have been better than the Centric bracket which immediately rusted.
To their credit, the Centric rear calipers used the boots with internal metal bands to hold them in place. The Volvo rebuilds used the apparently cheaper boots with external thin metal clips. I suspect those will rust and fail, possibly allowing the boots to fall off. I will replace the rear caliper boots on my Volvo rebuilds with official ATE boots which use the internal metal bands.
Paying more for Volvo calipers seems like a waste. Two of the six I received were rebuilt from disfigured cores. That base metal is a total crapshoot between Volvo and aftermarket. The machining of pad-holding surfaces seemed equally good between Volvo and aftermarket. Aftermarket front calipers represent a much better value because they include rebuilt brackets. Save money by purchasing aftermarket rebuilds, spend those savings improving the rebuild quality yourself.
In rust-prone areas, calipers will fail due to surface rust in three to five years. I feel the only solution to stop this cycle of failure is to send newly rebuilt calipers for professional stripping and powder coating. Expect about $450 for this job, including Cerakote on the piston heads. Add in new ATE piston boots and stainless Volvo pins and springs for even more longevity.
Or just send your nasty rusted calipers back to FCP for replacements every three years before they fail and destroy your pads and rotors on one side, requiring new pads and rotors on the other side as well. Maybe FCP will get sick of paying on warranty claims and use their influence to force rebuilders to do a better job.
The fault lies with the terrible rebuild quality and general lack of rust protection on all Volvo replaceable components. Not all cars are like this. My 2002 Mercedes suspension components look amazing compared to my Volvo which lived in identical conditions for almost the same amount of time. Quality is possible.
(Edit 5/31/23: I had labeled the rusty calipers as Cardone when really they are Centric. One failed after 15 months.)
Rebuilding and painting my calipers
- FireFox31
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Re: Rebuilding and painting my calipers
Last edited by FireFox31 on 31 May 2023, 21:50, edited 1 time in total.
FireFox31
Blue 2000 V70 NA manual, "the V70" - died, reborn, totaled, donated, stripped
Green 2000 V70 NA automatic, "the G70" - awaiting 2nd rehab
Black 2000 V70 NA automatic, "Geronimo" - rescued, rehabilitating
Blue 1998 V70 T5 manual, "the T5M" - awaiting rehab
Blue 2000 V70 NA manual, "the V70" - died, reborn, totaled, donated, stripped
Green 2000 V70 NA automatic, "the G70" - awaiting 2nd rehab
Black 2000 V70 NA automatic, "Geronimo" - rescued, rehabilitating
Blue 1998 V70 T5 manual, "the T5M" - awaiting rehab
- Chuck W
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I powder-coated the calipers on my wife's '97 GLT. Only been through 1 winter, but 15-16 months and 12K miles later they still are holding up well.
'97 854 T5 - Manual Swap/M4.4/COP/NA cams/P2R Brakes/16T/ chassis bracing/ XC70 nose swap
'97 855 GLT - Hers. RN swap/16T/COP/VVT/exhaust/302s/Flashed M4.4/ chassis bracing/ 2 kid seats
'78 GLE - Waiting in the wings. Future whiteblock/T5 swap.
The Others- '83 TBird turbo, '85 Mercury Marquis LTS (1 of 134), '86 LTD Wagon, '81 Granada GL, '76 Beetle, '93 F-150 I6
'97 855 GLT - Hers. RN swap/16T/COP/VVT/exhaust/302s/Flashed M4.4/ chassis bracing/ 2 kid seats
'78 GLE - Waiting in the wings. Future whiteblock/T5 swap.
The Others- '83 TBird turbo, '85 Mercury Marquis LTS (1 of 134), '86 LTD Wagon, '81 Granada GL, '76 Beetle, '93 F-150 I6
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PeteB
- Posts: 880
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@FireFox31
Have you ever changed the front flex lines?
These can sometimes become partially blocked causing drag, overheating, and rapid rusting.
Strange, our front calipers have not given us a lot of trouble, I think I've replaced them once.
I thought this was due to a more conventional design that works better.
Have you ever changed the front flex lines?
These can sometimes become partially blocked causing drag, overheating, and rapid rusting.
Strange, our front calipers have not given us a lot of trouble, I think I've replaced them once.
I thought this was due to a more conventional design that works better.
- abscate
- MVS Moderator
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I think I’m down to one set of rear calipers on my four P80s in the fleet that aren’t FCP
That means I have 8 front calipers , 6 rear calipers , and 16 sets if rotors and Volvo pads on the FCP PARTS love
train
That means I have 8 front calipers , 6 rear calipers , and 16 sets if rotors and Volvo pads on the FCP PARTS love
Empty Nester
A Captain in a Sea of Estrogen
1999-V70-T5M56 2005-V70-M56 1999-S70 VW T4 XC90-in-Red
Link to Maintenance record thread
A Captain in a Sea of Estrogen
1999-V70-T5M56 2005-V70-M56 1999-S70 VW T4 XC90-in-Red
Link to Maintenance record thread
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454cid
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That's going to happen as it's bare iron. That bright rust that looks so bad is just surface rust. It'll eventually get darker in color and slow down in progression.
I see you have 8.8 bolts in those calipers. Those are pretty light duty for automotive use. I'd replace them with some 10.9 bolts.The second Cardone caliper I installed had started to surface rust after only eight days, two miles of driving, and one rain storm.
PXL_20211217_000708909.jpg
Edit: I don't know why the quoted pictures aren't showing up in my post.
1996 850
1999 S70 GLT (sold after deer hit)
2010 Ford Focus SE
2006 Cadillac CTS
1996 Mercedes C220
1999 Chevrolet K3500
1969 Buick LeSabre Custom 400
1999 S70 GLT (sold after deer hit)
2010 Ford Focus SE
2006 Cadillac CTS
1996 Mercedes C220
1999 Chevrolet K3500
1969 Buick LeSabre Custom 400
- abscate
- MVS Moderator
- Posts: 35284
- Joined: 17 February 2013
- Year and Model: 99: V70s S70s,05 V70
- Location: Port Jefferson Long Island NY
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You have to load pictures onto The MVS SERVER not just post links
Full editor , add files , add , wait, submit
Full editor , add files , add , wait, submit
Empty Nester
A Captain in a Sea of Estrogen
1999-V70-T5M56 2005-V70-M56 1999-S70 VW T4 XC90-in-Red
Link to Maintenance record thread
A Captain in a Sea of Estrogen
1999-V70-T5M56 2005-V70-M56 1999-S70 VW T4 XC90-in-Red
Link to Maintenance record thread
- Chuck W
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Those 8.8 bolts are holding the caliper halves together, which is probably fine. They came from the rebuilder that way.
You should have 10.9 or better for the fasteners that hold the caliper to the bracket/upright.
'97 854 T5 - Manual Swap/M4.4/COP/NA cams/P2R Brakes/16T/ chassis bracing/ XC70 nose swap
'97 855 GLT - Hers. RN swap/16T/COP/VVT/exhaust/302s/Flashed M4.4/ chassis bracing/ 2 kid seats
'78 GLE - Waiting in the wings. Future whiteblock/T5 swap.
The Others- '83 TBird turbo, '85 Mercury Marquis LTS (1 of 134), '86 LTD Wagon, '81 Granada GL, '76 Beetle, '93 F-150 I6
'97 855 GLT - Hers. RN swap/16T/COP/VVT/exhaust/302s/Flashed M4.4/ chassis bracing/ 2 kid seats
'78 GLE - Waiting in the wings. Future whiteblock/T5 swap.
The Others- '83 TBird turbo, '85 Mercury Marquis LTS (1 of 134), '86 LTD Wagon, '81 Granada GL, '76 Beetle, '93 F-150 I6
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454cid
- Posts: 1250
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They're not my pictures, they're quoted from Firefox31. They're already on the server.
1996 850
1999 S70 GLT (sold after deer hit)
2010 Ford Focus SE
2006 Cadillac CTS
1996 Mercedes C220
1999 Chevrolet K3500
1969 Buick LeSabre Custom 400
1999 S70 GLT (sold after deer hit)
2010 Ford Focus SE
2006 Cadillac CTS
1996 Mercedes C220
1999 Chevrolet K3500
1969 Buick LeSabre Custom 400
- FireFox31
- Posts: 1635
- Joined: 14 August 2006
- Year and Model: 2000 V70 NA auto
- Location: New Hampshire
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It's good timing that this topic got a post after nine months because the powder coating on my calipers was just completed! They sat for six months at a powder coating shop which couldn't do them so I picked them up. Then I got too busy to find a new shop. I finally found a great shop an hour away, left them there for a few weeks, and now they look extremely sturdy. I don't love the color, but it was my choice so I'll deal with it. I'll post pictures once I get them reassembled.
Rust must not be on automotive parts. This rust is planting a seed of decay which will spread and ultimately swell the pad holders to lock the pads in place and/or swell the piston hole to cause a gap around the boot and allow moisture into the bore to rust the piston in place. To prevent this rust, a high quality finish such as powder coating or rust preventative paint must be used.
I am fanatical about preserving my calipers because of how much I suffered from rebuilt calipers seizing up. They caused me a lot of fear, unsafe driving, and expense of money and time. My original Mercedes calipers had one failure in 20 years (dragging caused heat and rust), indicating that quality finish is possible and can last a long time. Every rebuilt Volvo caliper I've seen is a rusty mess so I endeavor to fix that.
Yes, I've replaced the front flex lines since they're easy to access and the old ones looked cracked. I'm more concerned about the rear lines and hoses with their combination of metal and rubber parts and the long lines leading back to them. There's a lot of opportunity for a clog or bend in all that length. I have all the lines and hoses, OEM Volvo parts, ready to replace my existing ones when I swap on my new calipers. True, the rear rubber lines don't move much so aren't prone to degradation, but at 22 years old I feel it's safe to proactively replace them. They were not easy to obtain. Before I knew about buying from usparts.volvocars.com, I placed a back order for them from IPD.
Yes, buying calipers, pads, and rotors from FCP is the best solution because they'll get replaced for free when they rust and seize in four years. But this requires monitoring and labor to replace them when they fail, wasteful damage to pads and rotors from the seizure, and hazardous stuck brakes at a time which might not be convenient. I chose to get my calipers powder coated so that I would never again have to deal with these failures. I suffered from, as I recall, five seized calipers in five years, all full price and installed by a Volvo dealership, requiring new pads and rotors on both sides each time. Part of the reason for powder coating is to get revenge on the terrible rebuilder coating which allowed these repeated failures.
The Centric calipers appeared to have a light coat of paint on them. If they were bare iron, they would have flash rusted minutes after being sand blasted. The paint lasting only a few days after install, with no driving, is pathetic. Even the Volvo calipers with a silver coat and clear coat (which my powder coat shop said was not powder coat) was rusting underneath the clear coat straight out of the box.
Rust must not be on automotive parts. This rust is planting a seed of decay which will spread and ultimately swell the pad holders to lock the pads in place and/or swell the piston hole to cause a gap around the boot and allow moisture into the bore to rust the piston in place. To prevent this rust, a high quality finish such as powder coating or rust preventative paint must be used.
I am fanatical about preserving my calipers because of how much I suffered from rebuilt calipers seizing up. They caused me a lot of fear, unsafe driving, and expense of money and time. My original Mercedes calipers had one failure in 20 years (dragging caused heat and rust), indicating that quality finish is possible and can last a long time. Every rebuilt Volvo caliper I've seen is a rusty mess so I endeavor to fix that.
FireFox31
Blue 2000 V70 NA manual, "the V70" - died, reborn, totaled, donated, stripped
Green 2000 V70 NA automatic, "the G70" - awaiting 2nd rehab
Black 2000 V70 NA automatic, "Geronimo" - rescued, rehabilitating
Blue 1998 V70 T5 manual, "the T5M" - awaiting rehab
Blue 2000 V70 NA manual, "the V70" - died, reborn, totaled, donated, stripped
Green 2000 V70 NA automatic, "the G70" - awaiting 2nd rehab
Black 2000 V70 NA automatic, "Geronimo" - rescued, rehabilitating
Blue 1998 V70 T5 manual, "the T5M" - awaiting rehab
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MattaClark
- Posts: 10
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- Year and Model: 2007 xc70
- Location: Pennsylvania
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@FireFox31 can I bother you for an update now that they’ve seen New England winter?
Especially curious how the Cerakoted pistons have held up.
Especially curious how the Cerakoted pistons have held up.
'Moxie' a Willow Green 2007 xc70, 257k miles
Previously:
Black 1998 v70 GLT, 267k miles – engine failure
Graphite 1991 740 NA, ~180k miles – rolled
Previously:
Black 1998 v70 GLT, 267k miles – engine failure
Graphite 1991 740 NA, ~180k miles – rolled
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