Subframe Bushing insert job

azureblue · Post by **azureblue** » 09 Mar 2022, 16:45

I have a creaking noise coming from the LR subframe bushing, (Volvo Subframe Mount Insert Set - Powerflex PFF88-120BLK) so I plan to fix it withe the subframe Bushing inserts that FCP sells. I'm going to go under and make sure it's the bushing before I buy. The vids make it look like an easy job - has anyone done thsi job and may have advice to offer?

Thanks

R

Post by **Blacklab467** » 09 Mar 2022, 19:32

I've done it, it's pretty easy, about a 3 hour job no special tools. I changed the subframe bushings with Volvo branded parts, I would recommend doing that instead of the inserts.
Here's a link to a post showing how
viewtopic.php?p=568575&hilit=subframe+bushing#p568575

Post by **BlackBart** » 09 Mar 2022, 20:48

Thanks for that great link.

I have the insert kit waiting to go in, but sometimes I wonder if I should just get new bushings. 130k miles, ‘04 XC70.

Question - has anyone put in new bushings and the inserts?

Post by **Blacklab467** » 10 Mar 2022, 04:58

My problem with the bushing inserts Is that they give rigidity in an area where the bushing was engineered to not have it. Note that these bushings have an index mark and are very specific about being installed in this configuration. The original bushings are installed in a configuration that dampens shock and vibration in certain axis' and not others.
The inserts fill this void area in the bushing, thus making the whole bushing rigid and eliminating any inherent engineering designed into the bushing and perhaps telegraphing even more engine and road vibration into the frame of the vehicle.
Volvo bushings are inexpensive and manufactured out of good material and also well engineered to dampen vibrations of a 5 cylinder engine.

lawrencium265 · Post by **lawrencium265** » 10 Mar 2022, 08:21

I did it recently using aftermarket bushings filled with soft urethane roof sealant. I also had the entire subframe out, I don't recommend this. I also reused my bolts because I was getting an alignment after and if the subframe needed to be adjusted then I didn't want to replace bolts every time.

Volvo states to replace the bolts. They have a torque angle procedure that could stretch the bolts. They also get corroded, so they aren't guaranteed to have the same tensile strength over time. It's not expensive to buy the aftermarket version from ipd. Volvo wants $9 each for these bolts. Nobody can say if they need to actually be replaced or not. They are holding up your entire drivetrain and I'm guessing there is an element of "lawyer thinking" on behalf of Volvo when they say to replace these. Nobody can say if it's good or bad to reuse the bolts unless they have hard evidence or laboratory testing to prove otherwise. It's not a bad idea and they say to do it, so you probably should.

I bought aftermarket bushings because I don't want to give money to Volvo, and they don't manufacture their own parts anyway. I don't admonish someone who does buy oe parts, but I don't want to unless I absolutely have to.

I do have vibrations at idle right now, but I also created a vacuum leak when I did other work at the same time and I replaced all the engine mounts. So sorry, I can't tell you if doing that to the subframe mounts caused idle vibration. I doubt pulling the bolt out and putting an insert in is going to cause vibration.

The bushings as they come dampen movement front to rear. The inserts support the bushings from side to side, but they could also be preventing forward and rearward movement under dynamic load. Nobody knows what is happening unless they do some kind of testing. My car would shift to the left hard when braking I figured I'd just put 4 new bushings in after reading about the issues these cars can have. That issue was gone after work was completed, but new issues showed up due to other worn parts now sitting where they were supposed to (axle vibration)

None of my old bushings seemed bad. I pressed them out and in using a wheel bearing press kit Without issue. My car had one oblong bushing in the left rear location. My car has two alignment dowels that fit inside the bushings on the left side of the car (I don't know if this is true across the entire model range as I've never seen it mentioned) the oblong bushing allows the subframe to be rotated by the left front corner in order to square it to the frame. Good luck trying to buy one of these oval bushings. Many parts suppliers cross reference the oval and round bushings to the same part. You don't necessarily need the oval bushing, not having it didn't affect my alignment at all and I was still able to move the subframe around on the right side by about an inch or so.

The main issue I have now is that I'm not happy with the alignment after replacing the bushings. My caster is set at 4.2° factory spec is 5° +/- 1° so it is "in spec". The steering feels way too light and jumpy, it does make parking really easy though.

Everything is even from side to side. I'm thinking about putting in two oval bushings on the left side so that I can move the subframe forward ~1/2" and get the caster into factory spec.

So, yes, I would recommend doing the inserts unless you have a completely torn bushing. It's going to be much easier. Just spray some silicone lubricant into the bushing and put the inserts in and tighten everything to factory spec.

Post by **BlackBart** » 10 Mar 2022, 11:55

Blacklab467 wrote: ↑10 Mar 2022, 04:58 My problem with the bushing inserts Is that they give rigidity in an area where the bushing was engineered to not have it. Note that these bushings have an index mark and are very specific about being installed in this configuration. The original bushings are installed in a configuration that dampens shock and vibration in certain axis' and not others.
The inserts fill this void area in the bushing, thus making the whole bushing rigid and eliminating any inherent engineering designed into the bushing and perhaps telegraphing even more engine and road vibration into the frame of the vehicle.
Volvo bushings are inexpensive and manufactured out of good material and also well engineered to dampen vibrations of a 5 cylinder engine.

Very interesting BL, I will look at just replacing the bushings themselves. Seems like the labor is pretty similar.
Thanks -

Post by **vtl** » 11 Mar 2022, 13:15

azureblue wrote: ↑09 Mar 2022, 16:45 I have a creaking noise coming from the LR subframe bushing, (Volvo Subframe Mount Insert Set - Powerflex PFF88-120BLK) so I plan to fix it withe the subframe Bushing inserts that FCP sells. I'm going to go under and make sure it's the bushing before I buy. The vids make it look like an easy job - has anyone done thsi job and may have advice to offer?

Try these: https://www.ipdusa.com/products/11453/S ... 585-124933

azureblue · Post by **azureblue** » 11 Mar 2022, 13:22

Much thanks.. Better than the inserts?

lawrencium265 · Post by **lawrencium265** » 11 Mar 2022, 13:30

azureblue wrote: ↑11 Mar 2022, 13:22 Much thanks.. Better than the inserts?

It's a bandaid fix. If the bushing is moving in the subframe, then inserts will not fix the issue. It looks like Volvo didn't want to pay extra labor to fix cars under warranty the right way so they came up with this. It will save you the labor of pressing the bushing in and out if you want a quick fix. There's no telling how long this would last.

Post by **vtl** » 11 Mar 2022, 13:40

lawrencium265 wrote: ↑11 Mar 2022, 13:30 There's no telling how long this would last.

The rest of the car's life.