Why would shifter lock up and key not removeable from the ignition

[MrAl]

Hello there,

What would make the shifter lock up and stop the key from being removed from the ignition (where the key goes to start the car).
This seems very strange to me, why would a car want to do that.

[abscate]

If either the shifter do not reach the full detent of park or key position 0 ,they lock each other.

Normal operation per user manual

[MrAl]

Hello there,

What would make the shifter lock up and stop the key from being removed from the ignition (where the key goes to start the car).
This seems very strange to me, why would a car want to do that.

Ok thanks Steve.

Now is there anything else that could cause this?
My thoughts are that there must be a solenoid or something to move the mechanism from unlocked to locked, and since the cable connects the two they both lock up. It is probably energized when something tells it to turn on.

Any idea what that could be?

[abscate]

The ignition lock is mechanical, the shifter is locked by solenoid

Corrected below

[MrAl]

The ignition lock is mechanical, the shifter is locked by solenoid

Oh that's interesting. So i presume that the ECU drives the solenoid.
That could explain what i am seeing maybe. The ECU detects something wrong with another system then locks the shifter, which in turn locks the key.
I do have to wonder though who the heck would think this is a good idea to do and why. I would think prevent the key from turning, but why lock up the shifter.

[abscate]

I got this wrong. The shift solenoid is strictly for the brake pedal switch trigger. I don’t think the key position releases the shifter. If you push the sticky soda button on the console I think the shifter can be moved with the key out.

No ECU intervention on the brake switch, straight 12 V delivery to the solenoid on the shifter

[MrAl]

I got this wrong. The shift solenoid is strictly for the brake pedal switch trigger. I don’t think the key position releases the shifter. If you push the sticky soda button on the console I think the shifter can be moved with the key out.

No ECU intervention on the brake switch, straight 12 V delivery to the solenoid on the shifter

Hi,

I guess i still dont understand what instantiates the shifter to lock up, or should i say what exactly energizes the solenoid on the shifter.
If 12v gets to the solenoid, there has to be something that sends it that signal.
Could it be that the brake switch sends it that signal? But then it would have to have some logic associated with it so that when you release the brake pedal after the engine starts the shifter does not lock up.

It makes sense that the shifter would lock up if the brake was not pressed maybe they figured that if the brake was not pressed the car could roll.

This to me fits under the general category of a design that thinks that it can infer what is happening at a given time and make a serious decision about that inference. The Windows operating system has the same issues. The designers think they can foresee every single possible scenario and so they incorporate routines that they believe can handle these issues, while in reality they can not.
I've seen this time and time again and even made that mistake myself once. Long time ago we made a special kind of electronic weigh scale where the operator had to press a button to initiate the 'tare' weight measurement so they can then put something on the scale and get the actual weight minus the tare weight. Well everyone tried it and it worked well, but when it got to Indiana where the scale was actually being used, the lady that used it would press the button a little differently than anyone else before that, so the tare function did not work right. Had to fly all the way out there to fix it. This may have been a little different, but still similar.
The worst ones today i think are self driving cars. They have to infer a huge number of things from data they gather using cameras and possibly radar. Needless to say, they had and still have safety issues.

[erikv11]

Resisting the urge to troll. This site makes me a better person.

[BEJinFbk]

Or maybe it’s just a simple circuit with two switches and a solenoid that unlocks the shifter.

With the key in the run position, power is available at a set of auxiliary N/O contacts in the brake light switch.
Next stop is a microswitch in the shifter that is closed when the shifter is in the parked position.
The solenoid is energized when the brake pedal is depressed, releasing the shifter from park.
.

2EC1C5B1-D4D8-4A5F-A4D0-BED6C256016C.png (853.59 KiB) Viewed 995 times

AE91881E-4C06-4886-8C7C-BA3D770FB46D.png (634.34 KiB) Viewed 995 times

.
The cable from the shifter allows the key to be removed from the ignition only
when the shifter is in park. If you can remove the key in any other position,
something is wrong.

I would suggest obtaining wiring diagrams to assist in
understanding and troubleshooting issues of this nature.

Search TP 3932202 for US Model Year 1998 diagrams.

[MrAl]

Or maybe it’s just a simple circuit with two switches and a solenoid that unlocks the shifter.

With the key in the run position, power is available at a set of auxiliary N/O contacts in the brake light switch.
Next stop is a microswitch in the shifter that is closed when the shifter is in the parked position.
The solenoid is energized when the brake pedal is depressed, releasing the shifter from park.
.
2EC1C5B1-D4D8-4A5F-A4D0-BED6C256016C.png
AE91881E-4C06-4886-8C7C-BA3D770FB46D.png
.
The cable from the shifter allows the key to be removed from the ignition only
when the shifter is in park. If you can remove the key in any other position,
something is wrong.

I would suggest obtaining wiring diagrams to assist in
understanding and troubleshooting issues of this nature.

Search TP 3932202 for US Model Year 1998 diagrams.

Hi,

Not sure what that diagram with the items marked 201 to 215 are or where it is or if it is on my car. Never saw that anywhere on this car could it be hiding? What are those blocks 201 to 215 are they more relays?

I guess the main question is why would this happen at the same time that the car stalled out and would not start back up right away.
I also have to wonder why it would be necessary to keep the key locked into the ignition what would be the purpose of that.