ECM-644A VVT Stuff...
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Maestrours
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Maestrours
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Hello again,
I just dont understand what's Happening :
Yesterday, at idle my nominal angle was 15°, shifting angle was around 15. When pressing the throttle, nominal angle goes to 0, and shifting angle around -5.
Today i just unscrewed the tensionner, release the exhaust pulley, turned ut 1 tooth clockwise, and put the tensionner again. The values are nearly the same! 15° at nominal angle AT idling, and about 15 at shifting angle.. when I press the throttle, it just goes around 0, and shifting angle goes about 0... What did I miss? Is there a procédure to turn the pulley, like 1/4turn clockwise before going black?..thanks!
The starting is not good too, since i turned the pulley sometimes the engine stops right After it starts.
I just dont understand what's Happening :
Yesterday, at idle my nominal angle was 15°, shifting angle was around 15. When pressing the throttle, nominal angle goes to 0, and shifting angle around -5.
Today i just unscrewed the tensionner, release the exhaust pulley, turned ut 1 tooth clockwise, and put the tensionner again. The values are nearly the same! 15° at nominal angle AT idling, and about 15 at shifting angle.. when I press the throttle, it just goes around 0, and shifting angle goes about 0... What did I miss? Is there a procédure to turn the pulley, like 1/4turn clockwise before going black?..thanks!
The starting is not good too, since i turned the pulley sometimes the engine stops right After it starts.
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Maestrours
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How do you prétention VVT?wizechatmgr wrote: ↑20 Dec 2022, 09:27
Make absolutely sure base time is correct with the VVT pretensioned before/during belt installation. If all yourr other marks are correct, but you didn't pretension it, it will be off an incredible amount.
If i juste want to move it a tooth, shouldn't i just move it After loosen the belt?
Or is there a procedure ?
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wizechatmgr
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There's a whole procedure - check out the link I posted earlier in the thread.Maestrours wrote: ↑22 Dec 2022, 14:34How do you prétention VVT?wizechatmgr wrote: ↑20 Dec 2022, 09:27
Make absolutely sure base time is correct with the VVT pretensioned before/during belt installation. If all yourr other marks are correct, but you didn't pretension it, it will be off an incredible amount.
If i juste want to move it a tooth, shouldn't i just move it After loosen the belt?
Or is there a procedure ?
Wisdom requires knowledge as a prerequisite, but knowledge can be developed due to a lack of wisdom.
In order to learn how to fix something, you must first learn how to break it.
1999 V70 XC AWD 2.4 T -- ~231k miles
1998 V70 2.4 NA -- ~184k miles
In order to learn how to fix something, you must first learn how to break it.
1999 V70 XC AWD 2.4 T -- ~231k miles
1998 V70 2.4 NA -- ~184k miles
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Maestrours
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It doesn't answer well to my question, as I did not understand how to pretension the VVT. After some research I guess it is by turning the crankshaft clockwise 1/4 turn, then backward to the timing marks?
But this thread leads me to more doubts, as it said that using the cam locking tool and align to the marks would not be sufficient... I Hope it does, just ordered the tool and planning to re do the timing from the beginning as soos as I receive it:
- pretension the vvt by turning 1/4 clockwise then ccw
- placing the locking tool
- belt off
- putting VVT to rest position (by Moving it ccw)
- loosen the 3 bolts, putting belt on with marks aligned
- turning the hub clockwise to pretension the vvt and
- screw the 3 bolts and the tensionner
Am I correct?
But this thread leads me to more doubts, as it said that using the cam locking tool and align to the marks would not be sufficient... I Hope it does, just ordered the tool and planning to re do the timing from the beginning as soos as I receive it:
- pretension the vvt by turning 1/4 clockwise then ccw
- placing the locking tool
- belt off
- putting VVT to rest position (by Moving it ccw)
- loosen the 3 bolts, putting belt on with marks aligned
- turning the hub clockwise to pretension the vvt and
- screw the 3 bolts and the tensionner
Am I correct?
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wizechatmgr
- Posts: 1798
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Until you get the cam locking tool, you can't do anything. It sets up the base timing as you cannot for sure have everything aligned without it.Maestrours wrote: ↑24 Dec 2022, 11:04 It doesn't answer well to my question, as I did not understand how to pretension the VVT. After some research I guess it is by turning the crankshaft clockwise 1/4 turn, then backward to the timing marks?
But this thread leads me to more doubts, as it said that using the cam locking tool and align to the marks would not be sufficient... I Hope it does, just ordered the tool and planning to re do the timing from the beginning as soos as I receive it:
- pretension the vvt by turning 1/4 clockwise then ccw
- placing the locking tool
- belt off
- putting VVT to rest position (by Moving it ccw)
- loosen the 3 bolts, putting belt on with marks aligned
- turning the hub clockwise to pretension the vvt and
- screw the 3 bolts and the tensionner
Am I correct?
Do you have the lower pressure turbo or the high pressure turbo? I believe the direction of the VVT setting is different. I believe on the low pressure the VVT is set straight with no tooth offset. I believe the high pressure turbo is offset by one tooth. @Abscate had this written up in his prior post that I referenced.
The 3 bolts on the cam/VVT rarely are loosened. Frankly, use those only for fine adjustment UNLESS you replace the VVT hub. Generally speaking those don't need to be loosened and shouldn't be adjusted unless the VVT hub were totally removed or allowed to turn without being fully affixed to the exhaust camshaft.
Wisdom requires knowledge as a prerequisite, but knowledge can be developed due to a lack of wisdom.
In order to learn how to fix something, you must first learn how to break it.
1999 V70 XC AWD 2.4 T -- ~231k miles
1998 V70 2.4 NA -- ~184k miles
In order to learn how to fix something, you must first learn how to break it.
1999 V70 XC AWD 2.4 T -- ~231k miles
1998 V70 2.4 NA -- ~184k miles
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wizechatmgr
- Posts: 1798
- Joined: 12 January 2017
- Year and Model: 1999 V70 XC AWD 2.4T
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In order to prepare for the alignment tool when it gets there...
Align the base timing so the crankshaft and camshaft sprockets are aligned to their marks. If the VVT hub's mark is exactly where it should be on the timing cover, it most likely was NOT setup right. Remove the belt. Install camshaft locking tool, do the VVT preload/pretension, put belt on, verify tension on belt tensioner is set correctly, verify all alignment still looks correct. Remove locking tool, run two full rotations to make sure the marks don't move further. If they do move, something is amiss, start over and work twice as slowly. Then reinstall Cam position sensor(s), etc. Clean contacts and reconnect.
Start car, let idle, check and see if the code comes back. If it doesn't, run it up to ~2200 rpm, then shut it down, start it back up again. If it does throw a code, note the amount VIDA is telling you. Odds are you have it off by an additional tooth. It isn't uncommon to set this wrong when trying to juggle getting that belt on, it isn't a simple path like the old 8v VWs. Ignore what it reports otherwise while operating, that's all computer controlled, the fact it's adjusting at all means it is otherwise working but just out of range due to being set wrong.
A few questions:
Was the water pump replaced with the timing belt?
Was the timing belt idler replaced with the timing belt?
Was the timing belt tensioner replaced with the timing belt?
Was the original reason for timing jumping determined?
Align the base timing so the crankshaft and camshaft sprockets are aligned to their marks. If the VVT hub's mark is exactly where it should be on the timing cover, it most likely was NOT setup right. Remove the belt. Install camshaft locking tool, do the VVT preload/pretension, put belt on, verify tension on belt tensioner is set correctly, verify all alignment still looks correct. Remove locking tool, run two full rotations to make sure the marks don't move further. If they do move, something is amiss, start over and work twice as slowly. Then reinstall Cam position sensor(s), etc. Clean contacts and reconnect.
Start car, let idle, check and see if the code comes back. If it doesn't, run it up to ~2200 rpm, then shut it down, start it back up again. If it does throw a code, note the amount VIDA is telling you. Odds are you have it off by an additional tooth. It isn't uncommon to set this wrong when trying to juggle getting that belt on, it isn't a simple path like the old 8v VWs. Ignore what it reports otherwise while operating, that's all computer controlled, the fact it's adjusting at all means it is otherwise working but just out of range due to being set wrong.
A few questions:
Was the water pump replaced with the timing belt?
Was the timing belt idler replaced with the timing belt?
Was the timing belt tensioner replaced with the timing belt?
Was the original reason for timing jumping determined?
Wisdom requires knowledge as a prerequisite, but knowledge can be developed due to a lack of wisdom.
In order to learn how to fix something, you must first learn how to break it.
1999 V70 XC AWD 2.4 T -- ~231k miles
1998 V70 2.4 NA -- ~184k miles
In order to learn how to fix something, you must first learn how to break it.
1999 V70 XC AWD 2.4 T -- ~231k miles
1998 V70 2.4 NA -- ~184k miles
-
Maestrours
- Posts: 79
- Joined: 17 November 2022
- Year and Model: 03/2000 V70 XC 2.4T
- Location: France
- Has thanked: 29 times
- Been thanked: 9 times
Hello, thank you for all this informations.
I do not have choice of settings the hub inside the pulley as the 3 bolts have already been loosened.
Yes, I replaced both water pump, idler and tensionner, I bought a complete Gates kit.
I did not determined the reason of jumping, but it's more likely due to a bad setting at the last belt service, as I did get the number of previous owners, and it seems that the car was running not good for years. Which didn't seem to worry them...
Idle was catastrophic, as mpg...
It is Indeed the LPT version.
"
If the VVT hub's mark is exactly where it should be on the timing cover, it most likely was NOT setup right."
What do you mean by this ? Isn't it supposed to be on the marks?
Sorry to Ask this but to be sure, what do you exactly mean by "do the VVT preload"?
Turning it clockwise until it blocks?
Again, thank you very much for all this help.
And a late Merry Christmas everyone!
I do not have choice of settings the hub inside the pulley as the 3 bolts have already been loosened.
Yes, I replaced both water pump, idler and tensionner, I bought a complete Gates kit.
I did not determined the reason of jumping, but it's more likely due to a bad setting at the last belt service, as I did get the number of previous owners, and it seems that the car was running not good for years. Which didn't seem to worry them...
Idle was catastrophic, as mpg...
It is Indeed the LPT version.
"
If the VVT hub's mark is exactly where it should be on the timing cover, it most likely was NOT setup right."
What do you mean by this ? Isn't it supposed to be on the marks?
Sorry to Ask this but to be sure, what do you exactly mean by "do the VVT preload"?
Turning it clockwise until it blocks?
Again, thank you very much for all this help.
And a late Merry Christmas everyone!
-
Maestrours
- Posts: 79
- Joined: 17 November 2022
- Year and Model: 03/2000 V70 XC 2.4T
- Location: France
- Has thanked: 29 times
- Been thanked: 9 times
Hello,
So I did the belt timing as I received the locking tool.
Didn't care about the marks, i Aligned crankshaft then put the locking tool, and preloaded the vvt then put the belt. The preload did not take full course in the slotted holes si I Guess it is ok.
Car run fine now and no dtc code .
One thing is letting me in doubts; when I removed the belt, the intake camshafts mark was well aligned. As long as I putted the locking tool, the mark went 1 tooth advanced. I Can of course move the pulley around the slotted hole, but I did not touch anything as the camshaft was locked, si on my opinion the tooth mark do not count?
By the way, thank you everyone for your help, and happy new year
So I did the belt timing as I received the locking tool.
Didn't care about the marks, i Aligned crankshaft then put the locking tool, and preloaded the vvt then put the belt. The preload did not take full course in the slotted holes si I Guess it is ok.
Car run fine now and no dtc code .
One thing is letting me in doubts; when I removed the belt, the intake camshafts mark was well aligned. As long as I putted the locking tool, the mark went 1 tooth advanced. I Can of course move the pulley around the slotted hole, but I did not touch anything as the camshaft was locked, si on my opinion the tooth mark do not count?
By the way, thank you everyone for your help, and happy new year
-
wizechatmgr
- Posts: 1798
- Joined: 12 January 2017
- Year and Model: 1999 V70 XC AWD 2.4T
- Location: Albany, NY area
- Has thanked: 45 times
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- Contact:
If it's not throwing a code, I'd leave it be. Enjoy the victory =)Maestrours wrote: ↑02 Jan 2023, 11:34 Hello,
So I did the belt timing as I received the locking tool.
Didn't care about the marks, i Aligned crankshaft then put the locking tool, and preloaded the vvt then put the belt. The preload did not take full course in the slotted holes si I Guess it is ok.
Car run fine now and no dtc code .
One thing is letting me in doubts; when I removed the belt, the intake camshafts mark was well aligned. As long as I putted the locking tool, the mark went 1 tooth advanced. I Can of course move the pulley around the slotted hole, but I did not touch anything as the camshaft was locked, si on my opinion the tooth mark do not count?
By the way, thank you everyone for your help, and happy new year
Wisdom requires knowledge as a prerequisite, but knowledge can be developed due to a lack of wisdom.
In order to learn how to fix something, you must first learn how to break it.
1999 V70 XC AWD 2.4 T -- ~231k miles
1998 V70 2.4 NA -- ~184k miles
In order to learn how to fix something, you must first learn how to break it.
1999 V70 XC AWD 2.4 T -- ~231k miles
1998 V70 2.4 NA -- ~184k miles
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