96 850 Timing belt removal and water pump questions

Post by **scot850** » 30 May 2023, 09:02

It has been quite a while since I last did this and my memory is not what it once was. I just need some clarity/reminders:

1) Timing belt removal - Everything I read seems a little vague on the belt removal on a hydraulic tensioner engine. As I will temporarily have to re-use the belt I can't cut it for removal. So to remove the tension all I can see is a brief mention in Robert's video of undoing the 2 hydraulic tensioner mounting bolts. Does this not have a potential to damage the bolt/hole threads as it is still in tension when you try to remove them or is it not an issue?

2) Water pump install - I recall using a gasket cement of some sort to stop the water pump gasket moving while trying to get the pump bolts in. I can't recall what I used. Any recommendation? Also I used a very thin skim if I recall on both sides. Does that sound right?

Thanks.

Neil.

Post by **abscate** » 30 May 2023, 09:07

Permatex aviation is wonderful stuff but you don’t really need it. Just use two M6 bolts to hold gasket in position, get them started, then put the rest of the bolts in

454cid · Post by **454cid** » 30 May 2023, 10:06

scot850 wrote: ↑30 May 2023, 09:02 1) Timing belt removal - Everything I read seems a little vague on the belt removal on a hydraulic tensioner engine. As I will temporarily have to re-use the belt I can't cut it for removal. So to remove the tension all I can see is a brief mention in Robert's video of undoing the 2 hydraulic tensioner mounting bolts. Does this not have a potential to damage the bolt/hole threads as it is still in tension when you try to remove them or is it not an issue?

The thought of thread damage occurred to me too, but I did it any way, I think..... can't think of any other way I might have done it. I did cut the belt eventually because I was spending too long trying to get it off the crank pulley and whatever traps it.

Maybe I only removed the upper bolt, and let it pivot on the lower?

2) Water pump install - I recall using a gasket cement of some sort to stop the water pump gasket moving while trying to get the pump bolts in. I can't recall what I used. Any recommendation? Also I used a very thin skim if I recall on both sides. Does that sound right?

I hope you didn't use a sealer.... that will need to be scrapped off. I thought there were some pins that would hold it? I did not have an issue with the gasket moving. It could be that I stuck it to the pump first. I think I coated the gasket with a thin coat of silicone grease.

Post by **scot850** » 30 May 2023, 10:15

I know that is the preferred method using no compound. As I now have the hoist I might find it slightly easier to access when not lying on my back. I might also go as far as pulling the fender liner if it gives better visibility to the water pump. I have a bunch of the rivets to reinstall.

Now, I just need to find out about the safest or correct way for belt removal on the hydraulic timing belt system without cutting it.

Just saw 454cid input before this posted. So thanks too for your input. Like I said I have done this before but it was a long time ago with the hydraulic tensioner. what you mention makes sense so thanks for that. Nope, not used any gasket sealer and as mentioned above prefer not to but when doing the job lying on your back it is hard to get light and 2 hands to get the gasket to stay in place. Don't recall the locating pins and I think that was the reason I used sealer in the past to just glue it long enough to get the pump up and a bolt in place. I did not use loads, literally just a scraping/film to make it slightly tacky.

Thanks guys.

Neil.

Nikolaech · Post by **Nikolaech** » 30 May 2023, 10:54

Everything is simple. Loosen both tensioner bolts, then unscrew the bottom bolt completely. The tensioner rod itself will jump off the stop, the belt will loosen. Before that, fix the camshafts with a fixture.

Post by **scot850** » 30 May 2023, 19:20

Just have to find the cam lock tool from IPD!

Neil.

Post by **BEJinFbk** » 30 May 2023, 23:57

Oldie, but a Goodie!
.

Grab a pen and paper and you
can list the pull for your tool tray.
If you have an inspection cam,
( $20 on line for most phones
or tablets ) you can even see
what you’re doing scraping
the water pump gasket!

We live in magical times...

Post by **abscate** » 31 May 2023, 05:44

Two things nicely caught in this video

1 Removing the hydraulic tensioner - loosen lower bolt, remove upper bolt, Now pivot the tensioner off the idler to remove pressure from from the lower bolt. This stops damaging the threads.

2 The water pump gasket sits on locator dowels on the block, so it is easy to install gasket, then pump.

Post by **scot850** » 31 May 2023, 08:32

I have an inspection camera which might well help on this as suggested. Thanks abscate for the list of bolt removal. I have done this a couple of times before, but a long time ago!! More recent have the manual tensioners.

Ready to pull the tensioner this morning hopefully as well as the water pump is all goes well. With luck, may even get the new pump on and TB re-fitted. Just want to make sure the know is fixed by replacing the water pump. If it is good, then I need to look at the rest of the stuff with the owner and decide what he wants to spend. It needs a windshield as it is horribly cracked in multiple areas. That is about a $3-400 hit for a start! Then there is the in-op RR break, I think both the caliper and cable may be bad. Haven't checked the rest of the brakes. Then a TB kit should get done and possibly the serp belt. Tensioner seems ok for now. Bunch of small stuff like no hood latch, broke limit stops on the front control arms, trunk lock key seized and that was just a quick look over.

Neil.

Post by **scot850** » 31 May 2023, 13:32

Now I remember why I like the bastard year cars with the manual tensioner better. What a faff getting the hydraulic tensioner off. You can't get a socket on the lower bolt as Volvo engineers in their usual excellent consistency of making jobs way harder than they needed to be. Got 6/7 bolts out the pump, the found you have to remove the tensioner arm as they hid the 8th one behind there. Even with a stubby T45 it is darn near impossible to get to and undo.

Feels like someone did use sealant to stick this pump on as I can't get it loose. Naturally, thee is no where to get a pry bar in to, to get under the edge as the plastic cover is all ways around it preventing access or leverage on anything.

Add to that finding Aisin pumps do not come with new bolts. The old bolts are crusty, but I seem to recall they should have seal of some sort on the threads to prevent water leaking through. Any suggestions on what I can use?

Thanks,

Neil.