Water pump 3 broken bolts

[volvolugnut]

I also tried to use a "rocketsocket" on built up weld bead, but the shape was too irregular, it would strip the outside layer off but the material that was left was too hard for the flutes to dig in.

I have a set of import copies of the Rocketsockets, and they do work. I found that I needed to hammer/tap the socket in place, first. I was disassembling the very rusted battery tray from the inner fender on a 69 Buick Electra.

You have a situation on your hands that I would be very distraught over.... broken bolts AND no room to work.

Using the side of a carpenters hammer and many small taps let me get the rocket socket on part of the stud sticking out that it just machined down, there wasn't very much to grab on. They work really well where there's an actual stripped head to grab on to, those little brake rotor retention screw/pins get pretty soft and prone to rounding off.

^ That's where I'm thinking this is headed....
Might as well make the most of it, and start thinking of other things that can be done while it's out.

Well having the engine out would make getting the timing and serpentine belts back on a lot easier at least. It's hard to think what else would need to be changed other than anything I break getting the engine ready for removal.

I hate to even mention it but my Engine picker is on Long Island and we could get it up to you if needed.

If it comes down to it I might have to take you up on the offer. The guides for engine removal out of the top look pretty straightforward, but once a job gets started it seems nothing is simple.

You are really between a rock and a hard spot.
volvolugnutr

I just keep telling myself that if the timing belt ended up snapping or the pump went out in 10,000 miles I'd be in a much harder spot. I think I have a semi-permanent residence between a rock and a hard spot by now.

Extra credit for multiple quotes in the same post. Best of luck with the bolts.
volvolugnut

[Sveedy]

If impact within a tight space is the only issue, then buy yourself a pneumatic palm nailer.

Edit: Here is what I was thinking of. The round 1" +- attachment is great for hitting the surface of anything.
The nailer on its own probably wouldn't work.
https://www.pneutools.net/product/pn1-kit/

[MrAl]

While waiting for parts for my XC, I decided to do the timing belt job on my sister's 98 NA. I had no service history to know when it was done last, and I figured I might as well do it for peace of mind. Now after starting it I want to give the mechanic who did the last timing belt a piece of my mind.

They used an AutoZone duralast water pump, which used the same length bolts as the OEM Volvo pump, but the bokts they used were definitely lower quality, no stampints in the head. Anyways, 3 of them snapped off nearly flush with the block, without any of the normal twisting until failure, and only using a regular length 3/8 drive ratchet. Once the first bolt broke it was already leaking coolant so I figured might as well go ahead. Looking at the bolts that did come out, the threads were rusty all the way down, which I haven't seen in my last two water pump replacements. The pump was also stuck so tight to the block I needed to break it loose with a dead blow hammer and long extensions.

One in the top right broke, and both in the bottom left, on either side of the locating pin, are broken as well. I broke a bolt on my 94 when I re-used the Volvo bolts, bottomed one out, and snapped it with the torque wrench. The results of attempting to drill and burr it out with a right angle adapter went horribly, but thankfully a little RTV was all I needed.

TL,DR: I broke 3 water pump bolts on the removal, is there any way to jack the engine up so I can get straight-on access to these bolts for attempting to drill and dremel them out? I don't have the room, equipment, or time to do a full subframe drop or pull the engine out from the top.

Hello again,

Yeah this is very disappointing to hear. I had the same problem with the distributor bolts, but was lucky only one snapped.
I hope you can manage to get the studs out but if anyone can I know you can.
It's good to hear that those two broken studs go all the way through the mounting area though so you can always use the old bolt and lock washer and flat washer and on the back side flat washer and lock washer and nut and maybe a second nut if you have room.
I am wondering now what the diameter of the bolts are on that pump. I had removed studs long long ago using those Easy-Outs but it's been so long since I did that.
I've also had luck with grinding a slot in the top of a stud with a Dremel and a very thin diamond cutoff wheel. A regular flat head screwdriver then allows the removal of the stud. That's of course if the stud does not break again.
As far as who worked on it I wonder that too. Whomever it was had to be a joker of some sort leaving one spark plug loose.
Were you able to get the angle attachment for the Dremel tool yet? They work pretty good, and you also get better control even when you don't really need the angle feature.
Also just wondering, when you took the timing belt off, did you inspect it completely, and if so, was it in relatively good shape or look very bad or sort of bad, or just questionable looking?

[jsrnsis]

Hello again,

Yeah this is very disappointing to hear. I had the same problem with the distributor bolts, but was lucky only one snapped.
I hope you can manage to get the studs out but if anyone can I know you can.
It's good to hear that those two broken studs go all the way through the mounting area though so you can always use the old bolt and lock washer and flat washer and on the back side flat washer and lock washer and nut and maybe a second nut if you have room.
I am wondering now what the diameter of the bolts are on that pump. I had removed studs long long ago using those Easy-Outs but it's been so long since I did that.
I've also had luck with grinding a slot in the top of a stud with a Dremel and a very thin diamond cutoff wheel. A regular flat head screwdriver then allows the removal of the stud. That's of course if the stud does not break again.
As far as who worked on it I wonder that too. Whomever it was had to be a joker of some sort leaving one spark plug loose.
Were you able to get the angle attachment for the Dremel tool yet? They work pretty good, and you also get better control even when you don't really need the angle feature.
Also just wondering, when you took the timing belt off, did you inspect it completely, and if so, was it in relatively good shape or look very bad or sort of bad, or just questionable looking?

The timing belt actually looked ok, a little worn down on the backside but no cracks. It was probably good but once I got it off I found the idler bearing was pretty used up and the water pump had a weird squeak that I didn't like, Timing and serpentine belts were from NAPA, part number on the water pump brought up an autozone listing but it's probably just the same generic thing at all auto parts stores. Still waiting on the right angle and some diamond bits to show up.

[MrAl]

Hello again,

Yeah this is very disappointing to hear. I had the same problem with the distributor bolts, but was lucky only one snapped.
I hope you can manage to get the studs out but if anyone can I know you can.
It's good to hear that those two broken studs go all the way through the mounting area though so you can always use the old bolt and lock washer and flat washer and on the back side flat washer and lock washer and nut and maybe a second nut if you have room.
I am wondering now what the diameter of the bolts are on that pump. I had removed studs long long ago using those Easy-Outs but it's been so long since I did that.
I've also had luck with grinding a slot in the top of a stud with a Dremel and a very thin diamond cutoff wheel. A regular flat head screwdriver then allows the removal of the stud. That's of course if the stud does not break again.
As far as who worked on it I wonder that too. Whomever it was had to be a joker of some sort leaving one spark plug loose.
Were you able to get the angle attachment for the Dremel tool yet? They work pretty good, and you also get better control even when you don't really need the angle feature.
Also just wondering, when you took the timing belt off, did you inspect it completely, and if so, was it in relatively good shape or look very bad or sort of bad, or just questionable looking?

The timing belt actually looked ok, a little worn down on the backside but no cracks. It was probably good but once I got it off I found the idler bearing was pretty used up and the water pump had a weird squeak that I didn't like, Timing and serpentine belts were from NAPA, part number on the water pump brought up an autozone listing but it's probably just the same generic thing at all auto parts stores. Still waiting on the right angle and some diamond bits to show up.

Hello again,

Just wondering, how much room to you have to drill out the studs with a regular drill. Is there room for an full size drill but with an angled chuck? I am wondering because they make all kinds of angle drills now, and the pneumatic type are very narrow.
It of course depends how much room you actually have in there though I dont have that measurement.
Oh also, what diameter drill bit you think you need for that?

[jsrnsis]

After days of drilling, I finally got the bolts out, and the pump on. It seems the M7 tap in my kit was a little oversized, as the bolt can wiggle around in the hole once threaded in. I decided to ignore the broken bolt at the top of the pump for now, one bolt was able to be torqued very carefully to 13 ft/lb, while the other torqued to 6 ft/lb but felt like it was about to strip the threads past that. If the water pump leaks once I do a test after everything is back together, I'm just going to stick an M6 bolt through to a nut on the back of the pump flange and be done with it. If the engine ever needs to come out I'll be putting in helicoils.

As for drilling, I used a right angle 1/4 hex adapter for a power drill, and milwaukee 1/4 hex shank drill bits. For the weld bead that accidentally got turned into armor plate by quenching it with penetrating oil while still hot, I used diamond-coated twist drills made for glass and jewelry making. For these tiny bits I used 1/4 hex shank drill chuck adapters available on amazon. I also tried cobalt drill bits, but they didn't even make a scratch in the hardened face and its very difficult to put a large amount of pressure on the back of the drill adapter with the limited clearance. To make it easier, I also used a 1ft flex shaft extension so one person could hold and put pressure on the drill bit in the right angle adapter, and the other person could work the drill. One of the flex shaft extensions broke after binding the drill bit in the bolt a few too many times. To get a good center divot on the bolt face, put the water pump back on, and use a 5/16 drill bit through the bolt hole on the pump to get the hole started, but not too far in as it will start to cut into the threads in the engine block. The drill bit should fit very snugly in the water pump bolt hole.

100mm or around 4 inches is the amount of clearance between the face of the water pump mating surface on the block and the inner fender frame rail.

[abscate]

You have met the dragon in battle , and have slayed him…

[MrAl]

After days of drilling, I finally got the bolts out, and the pump on. It seems the M7 tap in my kit was a little oversized, as the bolt can wiggle around in the hole once threaded in. I decided to ignore the broken bolt at the top of the pump for now, one bolt was able to be torqued very carefully to 13 ft/lb, while the other torqued to 6 ft/lb but felt like it was about to strip the threads past that. If the water pump leaks once I do a test after everything is back together, I'm just going to stick an M6 bolt through to a nut on the back of the pump flange and be done with it. If the engine ever needs to come out I'll be putting in helicoils.

As for drilling, I used a right angle 1/4 hex adapter for a power drill, and milwaukee 1/4 hex shank drill bits. For the weld bead that accidentally got turned into armor plate by quenching it with penetrating oil while still hot, I used diamond-coated twist drills made for glass and jewelry making. For these tiny bits I used 1/4 hex shank drill chuck adapters available on amazon. I also tried cobalt drill bits, but they didn't even make a scratch in the hardened face and its very difficult to put a large amount of pressure on the back of the drill adapter with the limited clearance. To make it easier, I also used a 1ft flex shaft extension so one person could hold and put pressure on the drill bit in the right angle adapter, and the other person could work the drill. One of the flex shaft extensions broke after binding the drill bit in the bolt a few too many times. To get a good center divot on the bolt face, put the water pump back on, and use a 5/16 drill bit through the bolt hole on the pump to get the hole started, but not too far in as it will start to cut into the threads in the engine block. The drill bit should fit very snugly in the water pump bolt hole.

100mm or around 4 inches is the amount of clearance between the face of the water pump mating surface on the block and the inner fender frame rail.

Hi,

Because of the limited clearance space I wonder if it would have been possible to device a lever device to stick between the frame rail and the tool being used to drill with. For example, a crowbar as a lever but perhaps with a wood or metal pocket that the drill tool would sit in.
Maybe a certain hard wood piece with a pocket reamed out.
Just some thoughts.

[jsrnsis]

I somehow seemed to have gotten it timed correctly, since I had to take the cam pulleys off, I drew circles around the 3 bolts to mark their position, as well as a marker line from the pulley onto the cam snout. Accidentally moved the cams taking the bolts out, putting a screwdriver through the holes and bracing against the engine didn't hold it steady enough. I cut down a piece of 1/4 thick steel bar, which I fit into the slots on the rear side of the cams under the distributor and cam position sensor and used a pair of vice grips to carefully turn the cams until they lined up.

Spun the engine over by hand, then by starter, then started it up and it ran great, until it stalled out at idle after about 5 minutes of running. It started right back up and ran with no issues after that, so I have no idea what that was all about.

First time driving it started vibrating at 45mph, then it happened again, and then went away. I'm thinking this was just things settling out after having the car and engine jacked up for so long.

For now it's still being treated gently and being checked for leaks but it felt great to slap this sticker on.

20231120_212236.jpg (180.25 KiB) Viewed 215 times

[scot850]

Could be stuck brakes or parking brake shoes that release when the car and parts warmed up. Great news!

Neil.