Limp mode problem once hot - 06 C30 T5

[scot850]

I hear you. This is why normally I am reluctant to go even up to P2 cars as the Can-bus system scares me when it comes to diagnostics as the wiring diagrams are harder to follow. Add all the stupid non-standard acronyms Volvo likes to invent, it would be hard to follow with radar!

I decided as I have now been 'volunteered' to maintain our former 06 XC70 which was passed to our son, I need to try to learn more about the newer car operations and how to try to diagnose them.

Actually the P1 wiring diagrams (stupid acronyms aside) are way easier to follow than P2 versions. Vida does help as it lays out the various modules in kind of a family tree or hierarchy, so you can get some idea of what sends signals where. While not 100% foolproof, it certainly helps a novice on these systems.

Below is the Vida module layout for the P1/C30. As those that have experience of the system, you will know green means the system sees no issues with that module, yellow as I understand it can mean a possible issue, or older stored issue, and red means a warning fault needing addressed, as I view it:

Vida module layout for a P1

When there are no issues and you go into the diagnostics section the system ignores those module so they are white in this picture. In this case the IAM fault is with the radio unit (CD error).

However, the point of all this is that all the codes so far (with exception of the IAM/radio) have been in the tree from the CEM going left.

For this my logic is if the CEM was compromised by the sunroof leaking, then all the systems potentially could show issues. However, so far the EPS (power steering) has shown no issues. The TCM has no issues. The only items having issues are engine items (ETM/ECM/TCV/intake air leak). This would suggest that possibly the ECM is the common issue there. However, for the first time when at the dealer the car now showed a BCM error. While it is possible (need to look at the wiring diagram as per Vova's suggestion) that the only common thread is the CEM is the issue. The wiring diagram may need further investigation to see if there is a relationship between the ECM and the BCM. I know this is going to make my head hurt. Maybe I should just go back old school and buy this:

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/it ... ad4181362c

Apologies if you can't access as it is on FBM. Picture is of a solid looking white PV544 selling in our area!

This is really going to be a challenge that may not be fixable without a lot of investment. Ideally if it can be traced down to one of the modules, we can at least keep further cost potentially down to around $5-600 CDN.

Neil.

[scot850]

Well the dealer has unfortunately come up with a reason for the issues with tis car. They have identified that the mechanic or one of the mechanics that worked on the car dropped a nut into the turbo and it has destroyed the turbo compressor blades. That explains the whine the car had while accelerating hard and for the size and weight the car seemed slow to me. This could well be the reason for the TCV error codes, but not sure why it set all the other engine codes. Dealer quote for repair is $4300 CDN!! Yikes!!

Edit: I have to apologize to the dealer here! The quote was only $3300 CDN. That included 6 hours labor, gaskets/nuts/bolts/studs and shop supplies and 5% tax.

I guess this means a hunt for a used turbo and exhaust manifold (they are joined together on this car).

Then contact my mechanic friend to swap it out for them.

Neil.

[Vova585]

What about catalytic converter? Imagining that nut fall into turbo and traveled downstream...maybe look at that first before buying turbo since it might become cost prohibitive. Also not sure manifold will be destroyed badly with the nut that just passed through it. However, i doubt that someone wpuld charge a lot for exhaust manifold(it is 5cyl and there are plenty of them around and who ever needs one, so possibly can negotiate manifold-turbo assembly for 1 price)
On the other hand: dealer done a great job. They deserve recognition and box of donuts

[scot850]

The manifold on these is part of the turbo. This link might give the idea:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/276867899010?_s ... odel%3AC30

The dealer mechanic managed to fish the nut out of the turbo so it has not gone further down the system thankfully. It is on the intake side of the turbo. There are turbo's out there used, but none give any clear info on mileages or condition. Erie Vo-Vo have a few, but I will have to call them as they have not responded to an e-mail. Mind you nor have 2 other's. Only reply is from a specialist on the West coast on Vancouver Island. They supply very good used parts normally. They want $800 shipped (CDN).

Erie have one on there for $100 US, but they do not specify shipping to Canada on their Ebay site.

Thanks for the encouragement. You are correct on the doughnuts. I will take them some up tomorrow or Friday in appreciation!

Neil.

[scot850]

Well, the plan is moving forward. The owner travels a lot with his work and can be out of contact as he works in remote areas.

Last night he got in touch to act on my information. He has purchased a used turbo on EBay for $180 CDN + shipping. He tried to order one from Erie Vo-Vo on EBay but despite assurances they ship through EBay it says they do not. The response to that was EBay blocks certain items to Canada. Why when multiple other sellers ship to Canada on the same part?

Anyway, a used one is on it's way, so now we need to organize the parts like gaskets to install. Thankfully Volvo gave us a nice list in their quote! I hate to screw them on this, but the cost of repair they quoted was way out of reach for the owner, and the value of the car to them having already spent a large amount on fixing it.

I will go retrieve the car today and it can sit in out old garage until the parts arrive in a couple of weeks.

Now to twist my mechanic buddy's arm to do the work. Paid for of course!

Neil.

[scot850]

My buddy turned down the job which I have never heard him do before. I think his concern is that the exhaust manifold studs like to shear on these engines with age. I said I don't see why as the head was replaced 2-3000km ago and so the exhaust nuts will have been off then for the head to be machined. It is possible they might have been able to do it with it left in place but I would think very unlikely.

Anyway, having got a used turbo on the way, I managed to talk to the owner today and agree a plan. My concern is the line in the Volvo quote saying the are worried that small pieces of turbo blades could have got into the engine and damaged the bores. It is a fair point to raise. My response is to pull the plugs and coils and borescope the bores to look for debris. If it is all good we go ahead with the replacement and have them fit the used one and supply the parts. While they have the turbo pipes off the borescope the intake side of the intercooler and see if there are any signs of metal in there. If none, then good and no need to pull the intercooler for cleaning. If there is then we cross that bridge. Those who know, the front bumper and some other stuff has to come off to get the intercooler out so takes a bit of work.

The service manager has asked for the car to be pulled in at the first opportunity for the scope work so we can get on with ordering the rest of the parts.

Slow progress but progress!

Neil.

[Vova585]

I was just about to reply to this thread to ask for updates. I still have hard time understanding why they recommended entire exhaust manifold(a big chunk of iron, doubt much damage small fins can do to it). In terms of borescoping the engine cylinders-great idea. At least you will know what you are up against. Some older T5 were able to survive famous "banjo bolt granade" and run for significant amount of time after. I hope this car is everything and anything this owner hopes and needs. Cuz it is sure sounds like an expensive venture.

[scot850]

It is. Car is relatively low miles at 168kkm. Body is rust free and now blemishes other than a couple of curbed rims, a cracked tail light and broken windshield (standard up here). Couple of other smaller issues like the driver's seat belt is reluctant to pull out (possibly a clean will help) and the head unit needs replaced as the CD unit (common failure) is not functioning and it runs for about a minute after start up chuntering away to itself.

I have explained everything to the owner in layman terms. He is an electrical contractor and smart. It is his decision and he wants to see this through. If it were my car I could cut a lot of the labor cost, but wrenching I try now to minimize due to neck/shoulder issue. I still do it but will suffer for a couple of days depending on how much is needed.

Anyway, my young friend with the V50 T5 AWD manual texted me today. Low compression on cyl #3. Can I help identify the cause. So end of next week that is in for borescoping.

The turbo comes as a whole unit:

https://www.volvocarstorontoparts.ca/a/ ... 65276.html

Also check the link further up this thread for a picture of the actual unit. I have thought about just replacing the cartridge, but it was about the same price for a no-name unit. I have not replaced one of these in the past but I believe access to work on the turbo requires it and the manifold to come out. At that point when paying for labor at $210 CDN/hr, it does not take long to eat up cost on the labor side. We also don't know exactly what damage had happened inside the casing. It may be ok to re-use but then you are stuck waiting to get replacement parts with the car on a hoist. The other thing is it also reduces the chances of there being other issues you may find were introduce unintentionally during the head swap.

Neil.

[scot850]

Great news! The dealer managed to squeeze in the C30 to scope the bores for potential damage from turbo shards. The results were great with no evidence of there being any damage and they sent pictures of each bore which showed little wear and good honing marks still in the bores.

So now we need to organise the repair to align with the parts needed being ordered and the used turbo arriving.

Neil.

[Vova585]

Great news. Another round of applause to dealer. (I still feel that service department manager just wanted to prove it to himself and team that they are awesome and went above hours on this car). Thank you for education on turbo and manifold(i will blame Ford again here since I think it is stupid to make it as one unit, so typical ford).