240 dies when I shift immediately after starting

[rgk]

Yes, someone has surely attached a different brand of caliper. This shouldn't mess with my braking system, should it?

I think I have pinpointed the source of my braking problem.

I have bled the brakes. They work, but not very well. But that's better than before. A couple of days ago they didn't work at all.

However, the small upper bleeder screws didn't produce any pressure or fluid for a long time. But today I got to it, bled and pumped, bled and pumped, pumped the brake before power pumping, and got VERY gunky fluid to start trickling out VERY slowly, and only if I pumped the brake before bleeding.

I was bleeding that gunk for about an hour but had to stop because of an appointment. I believe that if and when I get that gunk out of both calipers I will have brakes that work.

Any idea how it could have gotten so gunky? Rust? The car is quite rusted. I am beginning to wonder whether I should disassemble the copper hose leading to the caliper and clean or replace it.

As for the engine dying, it still dies sometimes on a cold start. Could it be connected to a radiator hose problem? I heard the hose hissing, as if it was letting out a little bit of air like a bicycle tire, after momentarily starting and shutting my car off while working on the brakes.

I'll look into the vacuum leak and coolant temperature sensor when I finish the brakes. I still have to install a window and replace or fix a window opening/closing mechanism, not to mention clean the car, fit the tail pipe into the catalytic converter a little tighter, figure out why my windshield wipers are moving very slowly (problem with the wiper motor?), why I can smell gas when I shut the car off, fix the rear door handles (easy), why my radio plays only sometimes (connection problem with the radio itself), why the light does not turn on when I open (only) the driver's side door, etc. etc. etc. ad infinitum ad nauseum.

Ha! I love it.

[rgk]

p.s. I found this:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/FAQ/1025

Q: Your volvo 240 starts and idles good it will operate in reverse but every time you go to drive the engine stalls please help you get your volvo on the road again?

A: I worked for an Independent Volvo, and I got to see just this problem, sometimes the car would go, and sometimes it would stall. I admit, there could be many possible problems, but what we found most of the time was the Cat Converter.

I know that many are cursing right now, but understand the answer first.

Eventually over time, the catyilizer can break up into pieces if this occurs, the catalytic converter can shift and sculpt into a shape that will obstruct the flow of the exhaust system. If the shape is a ball, which usually forms, it will roll back and forth in its case while you are driving, and once it blocks the outlet, the engine will stall.

It is likely that you could have some other problem, but sometimes you just have to check every possibility.


Other: I have seen this type of problem too, and the cat is a possibility, but I would lean more towards a bad fuel pump or mass airflow meter.

---

This is not EXACTLY my problem, as sometimes it stalls in Park, but hey. Good to know.

[billofdurham]

Some models were fitted with different braking systems which can cause confusion when buying parts. Yours was fitted with the Girling system but I can see no problems with a different caliper on one wheel so long as it is compatible and takes the same pads.

Brake fluid is hygroscopic - it absorbs water very easily, hence the need to replace the fluid on a regular basis. Most people don't know that the fluid should be changed and, as water volume increases, braking efficiency decreases, rust starts to form in the system and all sorts of problems ensue. The copper pipes won't rust but the amount of rust floating around in the system could, and apparently has in your case, restrict the flow of the fluid. By the time you have bled all of the rubbish out you will have done a full fluid change and you should be OK without changing pipes. However, pay special attention to the flexi pipes if the braking system is in such a bad state.

A radiator hose problem shouldn't cause the engine to stall unless it is split and allowing water to hit the ignition system. Are you sure it is a water hose you can hear or is it a vacuum hose?

You certainly have acquired a poorly Volvo with all those things wrong but you can come back as and when you get around to fixing other things. Get it running first!

The answer from Wiki is interesting, but not necessarily the answer to your problem. Have a good look at the cat to see if it has been damaged. Are there scrapes/dents on the casing suggesting it has been bottomed at some time? Sometimes giving the cat a good shake will produce a rattling sound inside it which indicates that the innards are starting to break up.

There are still quite a few other things to check before looking at parting with large wads of cash on a cat.

Bill.

[rgk]

Bill (and whoever else reads this),

Yes, I believe what I meant was that a vacuum hose was hissing. I am not sure whether I should replace it or whether I need to just tighten it or something. It is the hose that is closest to the headlamps, the one that goes into the thing that is directly behind the grill. That is the radiator, isn't it? The hose must be a vacuum hose because I heard air pressure escaping from it.

But before I get around to solving that problem I must solve the brake problem. My calipers are OEM # 5002028. My Haynes repair manual shows that this is the ATE design, but I am seeing the same calipers at http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... p=12517944 being called Girling calipers.

Anyways, The front left caliper has a bleeder screw snapped off. I'm not sure whether I will be able to remove it, or whether I should buy a new caliper.

The brakes were bled pretty well but all of a sudden failed in a parking lot. It was pretty scary. I had failed to tighten the front left caliper and brake fluid was leaking out. I tightened the caliper but fluid kept dripping out very slowly afterwards. It turns out that the rubber fitting (washer? o-ring?) had become damaged. I rotated it so that the damaged portion is facing up. This has restricted the leak until I can find a replacement.

I must also confess that, in my youthful excitement, I sprayed WD-40 into one of the bleeder screw holes. I was trying to clean the caliper but later found out that petroleum distillates should NEVER be used anywhere near a braking system. So my question now is, should I replace the caliper, or clean it out with brake cleaner and hope for the best?

Aside from this, the rotor has been scratched due to poor caliper installation. The brakes now squeal when I apply a lot of pressure and even produced smoked once after driving down a hilly country road (I was driving moderately fast and had to use the brakes quite a bit). Do you think I can have the rotor turned while I am cleaning or replacing the caliper? Should I? I read somewhere that rotors made for European cars can not be turned because of their exact specifications.

However, something tells me that maybe it was not improper installation that caused some of the scratches (I know for a fact that improper installation caused AT LEAST some of the scratching, as I noticed at one point that a part of the caliper was pressing against the rotor, which I remedied). Both rotors were scratched VERY badly when I purchased the car. Is it possible that something else can cause such scratching, such as a warped or dented axle? The left front wheel always produces a strange sound while driving. It is subtle, but it is there.

Also, the left front bearing hub (and therefore rotor) has improper wiggle room - it rattles just a little bit towards and away from the center of the car. The other side is completely stationary. Might this be causing the strange noise? Perhaps my bearing are out of balance somehow?

I know this is a lot of questions at once. I am very fired up - obsessed even - about this car. I appreciate all your experience and insight.

Thanks. All the best.

[billofdurham]

I know this is a lot of questions at once.

Yeeesss, but they make interesting reading.

That is the radiator up front and doesn't have a vacuum hose running to it. However, what you are hearing may be air/water under pressure in the coolant system squeezing past a hose clip that needs tightening. Make sure they are all as tight as you can get them and replace any hoses or clips that look suspect.

OEM #5002028 and 5002029 are Girling calipers. Some ATE calipers are basically the same.

A snapped bleed nipple is usually very hard to get out as it is well rusted in. A machine shop may be able to get it out but it may be cheaper in the long run to replace it.

Where exactly was the brake fluid coming from and what had you failed to tighten? Any leak on a caliper would indicate a new caliper is needed unless you had just failed to tighten a bleed nipple.

Which caliper did you spray with WD40?

Brake squeal is a fairly common occurrence and can usually be eliminated by using a coating of copper based grease on the back of the pads before installing them. You can also buy a set of shims to keep them quiet but I have always used the grease. Smoke from the pads is another indication of "youthful excitement". You were just braking too hard and too long coming downhill. Select a lower gear and do not use continuous braking. I have never had a brake disc (rotor) turned on any car because it will not prolong its life by taking some of the metal off. If it is badly scratched replace it.

There will always be some surface scratching on a disc but deep scratches are usually caused by running the brake pad down to bare metal.

The strange noise from the left front wheel coupled with the movement indicates a bearing that is, at worst, failing and at best in need of adjustment. If it is the latter do it ASAP to prevent it becoming the former. Bearings do not go out of balance like tyres. They wear.

Bill.

[rgk]

>Where exactly was the brake fluid coming from and what had you failed to tighten? Any leak on a caliper would indicate a new caliper is needed unless you had just failed to tighten a bleed nipple.

I failed to tighten one part of the caliper to the other. They come apart when unscrewed.

>Which caliper did you spray with WD40?

Left front (American driver's side).

>Brake squeal is a fairly common occurrence and can usually be eliminated by using a coating of copper based grease on the back of the pads before installing them. You can also buy a set of shims to keep them quiet but I have always used the grease.

There are metal pads right next to the brake pads. Are these the shims?

>Smoke from the pads is another indication of "youthful excitement". You were just braking too hard and too long coming downhill. Select a lower gear and do not use continuous braking.

I am running an automatic transmission (sheesh!) and was not braking excessively hard. Just hard enough to stop where I needed to. I have never had smoke and brake failure lights come on when braking like that in any other car.

>I have never had a brake disc (rotor) turned on any car because it will not prolong its life by taking some of the metal off. If it is badly scratched replace it.

Might the scratched rotor be causing the squealing noise? I feel like I need to overhaul the caliper - clean it out completely.

>The strange noise from the left front wheel coupled with the movement indicates a bearing that is, at worst, failing and at best in need of adjustment.

Yes, I just read about this in the book and am excited that it is easily fixed/replaced. I just hope I can get all the bearings in properly. I have tried cleaning/lubricating bearings on a bicycle before and know they can be a pain to put back into place properly.

I also read that metal panels are rather inexpensive. Good news, considering my car is a rust bucket. The tailpipe detached from the muffler and fell off onto the street twice already. Hilarious, yes, but also a hazard.

I ripped the stereo out because of a connection problem. I narrowed it down to the wires that connect to the 'fade/balance' knob, or perhaps the inside of the balance knob itself, but when I took the motherboard apart from the plastic case the power ceased coming in to the unit. I'll have to do some research on this.

Body wise, I need to check out what is wrong with the thing that raises the driver's side window or replace it. I fixed one handle by putting a screw in where a small bolt had previously existed to create the pressure (torque?) needed to raise the door latch, but another handle has cracked and broken plastic, and I will have to replace it. The rear passenger side window was smashed; I am driving around with a plastic bag in the window frame. Putting a new window in shouldn't be a problem.

I hope to hell the iding/dying thing is a vacuum leak and not something to do with the fuel injection system. I read about fuel system diagnosis and it seems like more work than replacing a hose or two.

I should post some pictures and show you guys my rust bucket. He/She/It definitely needs some work, but I believe in it.

That's what you get when you buy a $500 Volvo 240. Work and learning.

Rafal

[billofdurham]

You have committed the cardinal sin of brake maintenance. You should never separate the two halves of a caliper as reassembling them is a factory job needing specialized equipment. You now need a new caliper for that side at least.

The metal pads are shims but they don't always stop squeal. Use the copper grease.

You can still select a lower gear with auto transmission that is why you have 2 and 1 on the selector. From the owner's manual:

2 Intermediate position. Upshift and downshift of first two gears (low and intermediate) occurs automatically. No upshift to 3rd (top) gear occurs.
Position 2 may be used to obtain forced downshift to 2nd gear for increased engine braking effect. Position 2 can also be used...
for relatively slow highway driving.
for city driving.
when driving on mountain roads where precise speed control is desirable.
for passing.
1 Low position. If position 1 is selected when driving at high speeds, 2 is engaged first and 1 when the speed has dropped to approx. 30 mph (50 km/h).
NOTE: No upshift once 1 is engaged.
Use position 1 to select low gear with no upshift. Use for instance, when ascending and descending steep grades.

It is possible that the scratched disc is causing the squeal but I have never experienced this. It is usually the pads. Some makes squeal more than others but most makes stop squealing with copper grease.

The bearings on cars are not like those on bicycles. You don't get a lot of ball bearings and have to feed them in one at a time. Look at this page from IPD to see what car bearings are like: http://www.ipdusa.com/Volvo-200/Suspens ... -265-1018/.

Really the body stuff, except maybe the window, can wait until you have the mechanics sorted out.

Bill.

[rgk]

Damn it.

They work though, and come back together when I screw them together.

[rgk]

OK, I have replaced both of the calipers. Yes, one of the calipers' bleeder screw was snapped off. This was done by a previous owner. I also changed two of the four brake lines that lead from the caliper to the rubber brake hose.

The new calipers are great, but one of them has the small and large bleeder screws in opposite places. But I don't think this will be a problem. The caliper is refurbished, but it seems like a purely cosmetic issue. I just hope that air is not getting through where those bleeder screws were inserted when refurbished. Do you think I should go back to the store and demand a new caliper?

I bled the brakes and they work OK, but might require some additional bleeding, as the brakes VERY SLOWLY sink to the floor when stopped at a red light. They go back to normal when I let go and accelerate. Braking then is OK, but not 100%.

In other (good) news, I fixed the vacuum leak! Three hoses were split at the ends. I was going to buy new hoses when I realized that I could just cut those ends off and put the hose right back on into place. Good as new, and my 85 Volvo 240 purrs like a kitten when idling. No shutting off, nothing. I am satisfied.

The machine IS a bit loud when accelerating. I assume it might need a general tune up, but I'll worry about this when I (finally) put that rear right window in. I am STILL driving around with a large piece of plastic in its place!

Oh, also just today I heard that the rear left wheel makes a funny noise (kind of like sex on a squeaky mattress) when slowly coasting. It goes away as soon as the gas or brake is applied. Funny.

Ha!

[rgk]

Sinking brake pedal diagnosed as wear to the master cylinder. New master cylinders cost about $30-50. Perhaps I can find a repair kit that contains the pistons, connector sleeve, and rubber seals.