blown rear main seal? PCV problem? to keep or not to keep?

[jblackburn]

Did he ONLY clean the flame trap disc? If so, the rest of your PCV system is clogged and would be a cause for the smoke out the exhaust. I'd give him a call back and ask what exactly he cleaned/did and let us know so we can try to help.

I don't know if the EGR would be a factor or not. I had a Honda with a plugged up one, but it only made me smell exhaust fumes coming from the engine compartment - it didn't smoke. My Volvo has a different emissions system with an air pump instead. I DO know that they'll usually throw EGR codes for a check engine light if it's plugged solid.

[zmvf]

ok - thanks - I got a hold of him.

RE the PCV repair, he replaced the flame trap (screen?), he totally cleaned out the oil trap, soaked it all in solvent and blew out the lines.

RE the rear smoke, he said he doesn't htink there's any problem with the compression - it sounds great and runs ver well - but he said if there's lots of smoke out the back, then a leakdown test is probably in order....

does that help?

thank
-zmvf

[Ben850]

I believe what people are trying to convey about the flame trap, is to delete it from the equasion completely. Remove it and leave it out. It may have functioned well for a brand new engine, but it will clog again. I did the PCV system on my '93 850 last week and left it out. I had a substantial RMS leak and it is tollerable for now, but I plan on taking care of it when it is warm again.

[erikv11]

On the flame trap, the disc or a screen mentioned, throw it away. Volvo installed them in a few model years to alleviate a supposed danger of a fire in the PCV system, hence the name. It proved unnecessary and was abandoned.

I like the suggestion to try running it with the dipstick out and see how much the RMS leaks when pressure is relieved. Only danger is oil loss out the top of the dipstick tube.

Are you sure your car has EGR? Most 96 do not, SAS is more common. If it has an air pump then it has SAS, that is the easiest way to tell.

It does sound like your mechanic is very reasonable. I don't know the quality of the parts he is using, hopefully it is pretty good.

Getting leakdown and compression tests is a good idea given the blue smoke out the back. That is odd, if it was valve stem seals then would expect it to be puffs at startup and after long periods of idling. When oil changes are done on schedule the bottom end (cylinders and rings) tends to last a very long time on these cars, ring failure is likely what non-Volvo friends are fearing. But I suppose it could have leaky rings, would be good to know about that and the valves.

About your earlier questions to me I'll reply in a bit.

[erikv11]

About your earlier questions to me:

Products like Bar's leaks are designed to clog small holes in the cooling system, or at the head gasket. But there are many small orifices/channels in the cooling system that should not be clogged. From all of my reading, these products can solve problems short term but long term be a real pain and ruin a cooling system. I suppose I might use it as a last resort on a car I had decided to just run into the ground, but not one I was trying to maintain.

Seafoam is different, I have used it on the intake and once as a last resort in the crankcase. I don't like it in the crankcase because I think it can be bad for the seals, and is unnecessary if the oil is changed regularly.

The maintenance cost question on an older 850, if a mechanic does the work: That is a tough call for me, as I do my own work, but I'll give it a try. Maybe someone else who gets their 850 repairs at the shop could chime in.

For example, a complete PCV job would cost about $200 in my driveway, that would include all new parts (pipes, hoses, oil trap box), and none of the URO off-brand parts that are cheap but fail instantly. You had PCV done at the shop (good move to address it right away!), and no parts were replaced, the old ones were just cleaned out, so consider what that work cost you as a contrast. That PCV pipe will need to be replaced the next time in, after another ~50k.

On top of oil changes and brakes, here are possible upcoming jobs if your car hasn't had them: control arms ($450 at the shop, $225 in the driveway), struts (minimum $800 at shop if done well), tie rod ends ($80 each), RHS and top engine mounts ($300 or so? $100 in the driveway), sounds like timing belt with water pump is way overdue (has it been replaced since you bought it? maybe $700 at the shop, ask them for a price, using quality parts is essential). Cam seals but it sounds like those were done already. A bunch of little to big things that could come up all at once or not at all: cam and crank position sensors, ABS module, CV axle joints, wheel bearings, radiators don't usually last to 200k, blower motor on the heater, AC compressor needs shimming, oil pan pickup o-rings (granted, that job is expensive and can be left alone). I'm not doomsaying or just listing all the parts in the car, these things just tend to go out between 150k - 200k.

With that in mind, I spent about $400 a year on maintenance and repair over the last 5 years, on a non-turbo 850 wagon. That is average, it includes some big jobs (e.g. axles, suspension) and some small jobs (tune-up, ECT sensor, etc). At the end of that time it needed valve stem seals and I ended up replacing the head and the engine at a great expense (like $1100 more). But I also kept the car functioning at a very high level. You could spend less and still have a working but deteriorating car. So all of that is to say I'm going to guess it will cost you about $1000 per year over 5 years to keep it in good shape using a mechanic. Then at 200k the valve stem seals are shot, if not shot already (see Blackburn's comment), so it would need a head job ($1500 at most shops) and you reinvest or move on.

Also I re-read your first post, no offense intended to your mechanic and while he seems to have good intentions, if you mean you are getting service at the big chain STS then I question if they really know how to work on an 850. Now that your 850 is getting older, you may not be able to get quality service there, service goes much better with an independent Volvo mechanic.

[rasense]

Greetings all,

Has anyone had success or have an opinion with the "fix" with a radiator hose connected to the dipstick pipe mentioned above by @wheelsup? Should I just hook the hose directly to the top of the pip (where the stick handle is and route down toward the ground?I'm thinking this makes a lot of sense to release pressure on the RMS. My RMS leak appeared after doing the PCV system. Does this seem like this could be the culprit? Thanks in advance.

1998 V70XC 230K miles

[mecheng]

I would try ATP 205, it completely cured my leaky valve stem seals; when I say completely I mean completely. It is truly a miracle in a bottle.

[erikv11]

It's a double post, rasense has his own thread with the same questions (and replies, actually) viewtopic.php?f=1&t=82891

[rasense]

Thanks, all.