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'98 V70 AWD manual swap donor compatibility

Help, Advice and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's P80 platform cars -- Volvo's 1990s "bread and butter" cars -- powered by the ubiquitous and durable Volvo inline 5-cylinder engine.

1992 - 1997 850, including 850 R, 850 T-5R, 850 T-5, 850 GLT
1997 - 2000 S70, S70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70, V70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70-XC
1997 - 2004 C70

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V50M66
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Re: '98 V70 AWD manual swap donor compatibility

Post by V50M66 »

scot850 wrote: 18 Apr 2024, 11:33 There are no arguing the AWD NLA parts issues. Rear brake back plates, R rear calipers, some of the rear suspension bushes and the like.
However, recently some aftermarket manufacturers have started to supply some stuff, quality TBA. There is IPD selling I believe PPS fuel pumps at about 20% of the price an OE one was when available, then there are IPD and others now selling the lower torque rod in various forms including poly bushed.

I am one who advises against buying a poorly AWD P80 as they can empty your wallet. Most of the issues I have found are age related and lack of maintenance by neglecting owners who run them until they break. As to the AWD system, sure it can be an issue, but then I hear of as many issues on the P1/2 on the Haldex system, and similarly that is down to lack of maintenance. If you really want to do it as a passion project and challenge then go for it! But unfortunately getting that MXX trans will be the biggest challenge. There is a hopeful person trying to sell a 97 850 AWD in what looks like good condition in the Vancouver area on FBM. They want an unrealistic $12000 CDN for it.

Might be worth trying Chapman Motors on Vancouver Island. They may have a manual trans stashed away.

Good luck!

Neil.
The ProParts fuel pumps are absolute garbage. There’s a guy on here with a Saffron R that went through 3 of them in a matter of months before throwing in the towel and making a Bosch pump work. That job absolutely sucks, so it’s not something you want to cheap out on.

At first glance it appears you can get parts, but you’d be sorely mistaken unfortunately. It’s a total disaster. And that’s for stock replacement stuff - you want performance? Too bad, time to go custom.

AWD on P80 is viscous coupling, so there’s almost nothing to maintain. The systems just kind of suck. Driveshafts fail constantly, angle gears fail occasionally, and the VC wears out with miles. Nothing you can do about any of that except replacing when it fails (assuming you can find parts, since every year uses a different driveshaft, passenger axle, angle gear, and VC unit). P2 and the other later Haldex systems are much more prone to failure due to lack of maintenance (pump failures, worn fluid, clogged filters, fried DEMs, etc), whereas the P80 system just kind of sucks with not much to maintain. But at least finding parts is damn near impossible.

Do I sound bitter about my choice to keep my AWD alive yet? Lol

Then again, these problems exist with the automatic too, so might as well make the pain more enjoyable with a row-your-own transplant. Finding a transmission that you can actually get into the states is the real problem if going M58, so I guess do what I’m doing and keep looking and pestering eBay sellers in the EU. Or find an S40 T5 AWD with a blown engine for your swap (this is the easier option as far as sourcing parts goes).

In the mean time, you’ve got yourself a pretty sweet C70 project to mess with, so have fun with it
1998 V70 AWD - Emerald Green/Tan - M56/Delta link swap, VAST tuned, lots of fun
1998 V70 NA - Nautic Blue/Charcoal - Factory M56/slicktop track car
2006 XC70 Ocean Race - workhorse
2002 S40 1.9T - daily

2004 XC70 - Mystic Silver/Black - former workhorse, parted
2005 V50 T5 M66 FWD - Black Stone/Black leather - former garage queen, sold

scot850
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Post by scot850 »

Interesting about the pumps. I spoke to IPD and they said they have had no negative feedback on the pumps in a year. Normally angry or disappointed customers usually are the first to jump on the wagon and give bad reviews. If your buddy went through 3 of them, why did he not give a negative review, assuming he bought them from IPD.

As to AWD failures, yes they happen. The youngest car is now 24 years old. The reason the prop-shafts fail are the center bearing rubber fails, usually after the front bearing has been melted by the heat of the cat. Better shielding can help. Not had a viscous coupling fail yet, but again I know they do, they even failed when brand new. It is down to how the parts are stored before fitting.

Angle gears fail because 1) Nobody ever services them until it is too late, 2) People hammer the cars hard off the line and it strips the teeth of the sleeve, then they continue to drive the car until the sleeve wrecks the teeth on the angle gear. 3) Owners cheaping out and not replacing the 4 tires and only doing 2. The handbook clearly states the system can't deal with that.

I am not defending what was a not too great system, but much of the issues it has is down to bad owners and no maintenance.

Neil.
2006 V70 2.5T AWD Polestar tune
2000 V70 R - still being an endless PITA
2006 XC70 - Our son now has this and still parked in our garage
2003 Toyota 4Runner V8 Limited
2015 Kia Sportage EX-L - Sold
1993 850 GLT -Sold
1998 V70 XC - Sold
1997 Volvo 850 SE NA - Went to niece in California - Sold
2000 V70 SE NA - Sold

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abscate
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Post by abscate »

Volvo calls for a different lube in the angle gear and the differential , yet many use the same gear oil. I’ve often wondered if that contributes. There is a thread on this here
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1999-V70-T5M56 2005-V70-M56 1999-S70 VW T4 XC90-in-Red
Link to Maintenance record thread

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V50M66
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Post by V50M66 »

scot850 wrote: 18 Apr 2024, 23:47 Interesting about the pumps. I spoke to IPD and they said they have had no negative feedback on the pumps in a year. Normally angry or disappointed customers usually are the first to jump on the wagon and give bad reviews. If your buddy went through 3 of them, why did he not give a negative review, assuming he bought them from IPD.

As to AWD failures, yes they happen. The youngest car is now 24 years old. The reason the prop-shafts fail are the center bearing rubber fails, usually after the front bearing has been melted by the heat of the cat. Better shielding can help. Not had a viscous coupling fail yet, but again I know they do, they even failed when brand new. It is down to how the parts are stored before fitting.

Angle gears fail because 1) Nobody ever services them until it is too late, 2) People hammer the cars hard off the line and it strips the teeth of the sleeve, then they continue to drive the car until the sleeve wrecks the teeth on the angle gear. 3) Owners cheaping out and not replacing the 4 tires and only doing 2. The handbook clearly states the system can't deal with that.

I am not defending what was a not too great system, but much of the issues it has is down to bad owners and no maintenance.

Neil.
Not sure where he got his pumps - no relation to the guy, just relaying what he posted in his thread a few months back on here.

They figured the driveshafts out for P2. The P80 driveshafts are simply poorly designed. P2 shafts have the same heat exposure with no shielding and they are fine, with failures being very uncommon.

Agreed about angle gear sentiments and general lack of maintenance being an issue, but the poor design of the system doesn't help
1998 V70 AWD - Emerald Green/Tan - M56/Delta link swap, VAST tuned, lots of fun
1998 V70 NA - Nautic Blue/Charcoal - Factory M56/slicktop track car
2006 XC70 Ocean Race - workhorse
2002 S40 1.9T - daily

2004 XC70 - Mystic Silver/Black - former workhorse, parted
2005 V50 T5 M66 FWD - Black Stone/Black leather - former garage queen, sold

scot850
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Post by scot850 »

Agreed it is a week system if abused and neglected. Mind you I also owned a 2001 Suburban and it was a poor system too. The lock mechanism for the front axle was a known issue for jamming and not engaging wen you didn't use it or service it. Also when turning left or right on almost full lock the front wheels would lock and the car would just go straight and not turn.

Many poor systems out there. This system is only now bad due to mostly age and parts availability. Going Bmdubya's route of FWD is a good back up plan.

Neil.
2006 V70 2.5T AWD Polestar tune
2000 V70 R - still being an endless PITA
2006 XC70 - Our son now has this and still parked in our garage
2003 Toyota 4Runner V8 Limited
2015 Kia Sportage EX-L - Sold
1993 850 GLT -Sold
1998 V70 XC - Sold
1997 Volvo 850 SE NA - Went to niece in California - Sold
2000 V70 SE NA - Sold

Culito
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Post by Culito »

The Coupe is toast (I just posted the best angle) - some kid Fast n' Furioused it through Kansas City potholes and absolutely destroyed the interior. I think it's just a wheel and M56 donor, and some misc parts. Left rear corner has damage and overall, it's not my style.
IF the engine with the HPT has better compression than my V70 I MAY consider swapping that too, but the V70 with the LPT seems to run strong without complaints. And, it's just a daily driver / short commuter - not sure the HPT would be a good idea for that. It looks like the kid tore into the throttle body (came with a rebuild kit) and VVT stuff before giving up, so I don't know the status of those parts.

I'm going through manual swap threads - I guess I'm taking out the AWD and going FWD. If that's the trade-off, I'll take the third pedal.
Not sure who in my area can help with the ECU flash part. That might be a challenge.

BTW I have been using a Walbro fuel pump, it's been working great. The Pro Parts one was trash.
My car thread is here:
viewtopic.php?t=102681
IMG_20240420_135436.jpg
IMG_20240420_135436.jpg (255.76 KiB) Viewed 496 times

scot850
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Post by scot850 »

Good to know, but even the Walbro one is getting hard to find as I understood they stopped making it. I may be wrong on that.

Neil.
2006 V70 2.5T AWD Polestar tune
2000 V70 R - still being an endless PITA
2006 XC70 - Our son now has this and still parked in our garage
2003 Toyota 4Runner V8 Limited
2015 Kia Sportage EX-L - Sold
1993 850 GLT -Sold
1998 V70 XC - Sold
1997 Volvo 850 SE NA - Went to niece in California - Sold
2000 V70 SE NA - Sold

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Post by abscate »

The one I source for Ekaterina was made by Walbro or under license
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V50M66
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Post by V50M66 »

Culito wrote: 20 Apr 2024, 17:18 The Coupe is toast (I just posted the best angle) - some kid Fast n' Furioused it through Kansas City potholes and absolutely destroyed the interior. I think it's just a wheel and M56 donor, and some misc parts. Left rear corner has damage and overall, it's not my style.
IF the engine with the HPT has better compression than my V70 I MAY consider swapping that too, but the V70 with the LPT seems to run strong without complaints. And, it's just a daily driver / short commuter - not sure the HPT would be a good idea for that. It looks like the kid tore into the throttle body (came with a rebuild kit) and VVT stuff before giving up, so I don't know the status of those parts.

I'm going through manual swap threads - I guess I'm taking out the AWD and going FWD. If that's the trade-off, I'll take the third pedal.
Not sure who in my area can help with the ECU flash part. That might be a challenge.

BTW I have been using a Walbro fuel pump, it's been working great. The Pro Parts one was trash.
My car thread is here:
viewtopic.php?t=102681

IMG_20240420_135436.jpg
Fair enough - sounds like it's FWD and manual swap time.

Since your car is a '98, tuning for the swap is simply a case of dropping in a new ECU from a manual '98 (and doing the transmission wiring modifications laid out in many a manual swap thread). I'd highly suggest VAST Tuning's factory R tune - it's cheap, effective, and will give you another 50 or so hp compared to your stock GLT tune. I have it in my car (albeit in automatic form) and it's fantastic. Just select manual transmission from the drop down and make sure you snag the blue injectors off your C70 at the same time so it works right. Here's the link:
https://vasttuning.com/product/stock-r-tune/

Here's Alex's thread about the FWD swap for reference:
viewtopic.php?t=97555

Also, MAKE SURE to keep that C70 around for parts until you are completely done with the swap. There are lots of weird things that are FWD specific/different on AWD cars that you wouldn't expect and may need to be swapped over.
1998 V70 AWD - Emerald Green/Tan - M56/Delta link swap, VAST tuned, lots of fun
1998 V70 NA - Nautic Blue/Charcoal - Factory M56/slicktop track car
2006 XC70 Ocean Race - workhorse
2002 S40 1.9T - daily

2004 XC70 - Mystic Silver/Black - former workhorse, parted
2005 V50 T5 M66 FWD - Black Stone/Black leather - former garage queen, sold

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Post by foggydogg »

Culito wrote: 20 Apr 2024, 17:18
I'm going through manual swap threads - I guess I'm taking out the AWD and going FWD. If that's the trade-off, I'll take the third pedal.
Not sure who in my area can help with the ECU flash part. That might be a challenge.

My car thread is here:
viewtopic.php?t=102681

IMG_20240420_135436.jpg
Robert did the same awd/fwd conversion on his son in laws car not long ago, can't remember if it was manual swapped too. Fuel tank and all the fuel lines ended up being a stumble, mostly because he didn't get it all on the first trip to the salvage yard. I think he used stuff off a convertible, and the rear track was wider - which he already knew since he has the same rear setup on his 850T5R.
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98 V70R x2, Silver Junkyard rescue, Coral Red
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