p0420 & p0430 on volvo xc90 2012 Topic is solved

[MoVolvos]

Took out the plugs. For your judgment

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Let's summarize a little here.

BTW, glad you took the time to look at the plugs. From the link chitownV provided and the oil ring video (see my previous post), let's establish and confirm that your P2 3.2 is not affected by the poor oil ring design issue. If there is oil burning it's from long oil changes interval, again established by chitownV's link and the video.

From the spark plug chart below we see your plugs has an oil burning issue with #6 while the others seem normal at this time. The first thing to establish is whether that cylinder has lower compression. If it does then oil burning is the main issue with cylinder 6 and less likely the PCV at this time. Being you're in Israel the 15W40 is suitable for the warmer weather.
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1) Check compression of each cylinder to see if the oil problem is cylinder specific.
2) Clean all plugs and swap plug #6 and the coil with plug & coil #1. Check again and if cylinder #6 is clean then it could be a weak coil.
3) Clean the CAT with Lacq Thin regardless of any of the above to see if code goes away
4) Change to 15W-40 and check plugs again after some miles to see if there is improvement in overall oil burning.

Do the simple and narrow things down before changing part$ and doing a lot of potentially unnecessary work.
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Plugs.png (2.26 MiB) Viewed 718 times

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[EgoziAlon]

Thanks for summarizing.
I did do compression test.
All of them were in a good condition - that's what the mechanic told me. But he also told me that there could be good compression but still the rings could pass oil through because of that poor thing design.
Also i did smell some volatile fuel smell from the oil. And if course the no.6 plug smells like burned oil and the no. 1 doesn't

[MoVolvos]

Thanks for summarizing.
I did do compression test.
All of them were in a good condition - that's what the mechanic told me. But he also told me that there could be good compression but still the rings could pass oil through because of that poor thing design.
Also i did smell some volatile fuel smell from the oil. And if course the no.6 plug smells like burned oil and the no. 1 doesn't

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The link chitownV provided, again below, and the video indicates your engine did not have those bad rings. You need to do the research so that is not constantly in the back of your mind. The excerpt below tells you the rings were not part of the P2 but 3.2 P3. Real world reporting also indicated no reports of bad rings but long oil change intervals causing issues so it's wear not poor design.

If your mechanic states it could still be passing oil, it could be from wear or per chiTownV the PCV. I would swap the plugs, coil and injector from #6 with #1 and see the result. Could be weak coil or injectors causing the fuel smell. See if it follows to cylinder number after you swap. Regardless, you need to clean the CAT so you can see if the problem returns beside the potential blowby.

https://www.swedespeed.com/threads/3-2- ... on.658144/

2) Engine Oil Changes

Volvo did a disservice with their ~7k mile oil change intervals using conventional oil. Servicing a 3.2 at the dealership can lead to issues IMHO.
(Edit, added questions & answers below)

Q: Do all 3.2s consume oil?
A: No. Many don't have a consumption issue due to good oil changes. A link discussing high mileage 3.2s posted later in this thread​
​
Q: Does it matter which year 3.2?​
A: No, real-world feedback from owners shows the same results and application for both variants of the 3.2 engine.​
​
Q: Is there an engineering flaw?​
A: Not really. unlike the P3 platform 2.0 (forced induction) and 2.5t engine which saw oil consumption as early as 30k miles and 60k miles, if there are poor oil changes that contribute to oil consumption, it's not usually seen until over 100k miles. The 3.2 is a naturally aspirated engine (no turbo or forced induction).​

[chitownV]

Thanks for summarizing.
I did do compression test.
All of them were in a good condition - that's what the mechanic told me. But he also told me that there could be good compression but still the rings could pass oil through because of that poor thing design.
Also i did smell some volatile fuel smell from the oil. And if course the no.6 plug smells like burned oil and the no. 1 doesn't

.
The link chitownV provided, again below, and the video indicates your engine did not have those bad rings. You need to do the research so that is not constantly in the back of your mind. The excerpt below tells you the rings were not part of the P2 but 3.2 P3. Real world reporting also indicated no reports of bad rings but long oil change intervals causing issues so it's wear not poor design.

If your mechanic states it could still be passing oil, it could be from wear or per chiTownV the PCV. I would swap the plugs, coil and injector from #6 with #1 and see the result. Could be weak coil or injectors causing the fuel smell. See if it follows to cylinder number after you swap. Regardless, you need to clean the CAT so you can see if the problem returns beside the potential blowby.

https://www.swedespeed.com/threads/3-2- ... on.658144/

2) Engine Oil Changes

Volvo did a disservice with their ~7k mile oil change intervals using conventional oil. Servicing a 3.2 at the dealership can lead to issues IMHO.
(Edit, added questions & answers below)

Q: Do all 3.2s consume oil?
A: No. Many don't have a consumption issue due to good oil changes. A link discussing high mileage 3.2s posted later in this thread​
​
Q: Does it matter which year 3.2?​
A: No, real-world feedback from owners shows the same results and application for both variants of the 3.2 engine.​
​
Q: Is there an engineering flaw?​
A: Not really. unlike the P3 platform 2.0 (forced induction) and 2.5t engine which saw oil consumption as early as 30k miles and 60k miles, if there are poor oil changes that contribute to oil consumption, it's not usually seen until over 100k miles. The 3.2 is a naturally aspirated engine (no turbo or forced induction).​

Unfortunately, you are misinterpreting things. Extended oil change intervals led to carbon build-up in the piston oil control rings, which was ~7,500 miles with non-synthetic oil. Even the later engines with the updated Oil Control Rings were affected. The 2.0 engines which had 10k mile oil changes also had carbon build-up issues. This is an industry-wide issue, not just Volvo. Good oil changes with synthetic oil and shorter intervals will help prevent the carbon build-up.

You are suggesting that only using thicker oil and using paint thinner will address the P0420/P0430 codes?

BTW, you are confusing engine versions. The P2 XC90, which ran until 2014, got only two 3.2 engine variants, while the P3s got more. The XC90 also did not get a PZEV engine version. We can compare different maintenance and repairs with Land Rover as well since the 3.2 was used in the LR2. On this forum and the SS forum, real-world experience would show there are a lot more people with oil consumption and P0420/P0430 codes in the updated S5 variant of the 3.2 engine than you are saying. Don't take my word for it, go research yourself as I've helped many of them as well.

If you are only using my thread without any experience owning Volvo's SI6 engines, the thread is only a guide to help Si6 owners get started with their own research and understanding of their 3.2 experience. Instead of quoting me, why not share your own 3.2 experience? Mine is based on directly helping dozens of 3.2 owners over the years. Please do share yours.

I've worked on white block engines, even later P2 2.5t tuned engines which used synthetic 5W-40 oil since under 10k miles and at 130k+ miles, they did not have carbon build up where the PCV oil trap goes to the engine block. This engine block drain was not blocked at all. Understanding carbon build-up with non-synthetic oil and long extended oil change intervals is basic.

Have been trying to help Alon for three months now, but it requires him to do his work to help with diagnosis
Normal engine wear is normal. Elevated engine wear was asked about and suggested months ago. The PCV, as well as reading the spark plugs, compression test, and leak down test was suggested when Alon Egozi first posted on Jan 24th on the other forum. He actually started posting on various threads before that. Also below is a Volvo TJ showing the decision tree for oil consumption, TSB is attached. The Priority isn't in the cylinder wall, but with the PCV and other checks because it could also lead to the valve cover seal; thus I was asking about any oil in the spark plug hole when the spark plugs were removed again to read them. The valve cover seal isn't an easy one and if the PCV and primary catalytic converter work was not done properly, then I wouldn't trust the same mechanics sealing the valve cover.

There are already visual clues the replaced PCV is leaking from the seal and/or the diaphragm cover. It's in the pictures. This could be a direct cause for the P0420/P0430 codes. If the compression is good, then it's time time to move on from blow-by. Verifying the compression would be just one of my suggestions (I already asked), but it took months just to get general pictures even though he kept demanding more help. I asked about the compression months ago.

Share your direct 3.2 engine experience
But look, you can suggest what you want. It's Alon Egozi's choice. You don't have to try to debunk someone's direct experience helping dozens of 3.2 owners resulting in a collective experience tackling the P0420/P0430 codes. Instead, share your direct experience with the 3.2. For the 3.2 engines, we can all have different experiences, different amounts of experiences, and different results.

Keep on making suggestions to Alon Egozi. He needs the help...

P0420&p0430 codes, white residue on plugs and oil consumption.png (182.82 KiB) Viewed 661 times

Oil Consumption decision tree.png (113.6 KiB) Viewed 661 times

Volvo TJ 35526.1.1.pdf

(625.58 KiB) Downloaded 208 times

[MoVolvos]

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Didn't know there was such a long history with helping OP with the problem. He still needs to swap plugs, coils and injectors #6 with #1. No mention of checking those to see if number 6 has more problems than the rest even though his mechanic says all compression are good but could still burn more oil than other cylinders.
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The Lacquer Thinner again is for bringing the CAT to baseline to see how dirty it is. Everything else from your experience I'm not discounting. I'm merely going about systematically helping with what info he is providing. Sooner or later if he does what I believe will help rule things out, he will have to go down the PCV road and others. Until the CAT is cleaned and injector, coil and plugs are swapped you can't rule out one a bad cylinder, weak coil or problem with the injector.
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As for the oil consumption. Let's make sure that we are talking about the same thing. The P2 XC90 to 2014 did not have the bad designed oil rings on the Volvo and through out the industry. They can consume oil but didn't have those badly designed oil rings which were on later 2.0, 3.2's with some indicating the 2.5's also.

The service bulletin you provided indicated this also. The service bulletin is in 2020 so this couldn't be for the up to 2014 XC90's. Oil consumption from poor or improper maintenance is not the same as poorly design rings which again the P2 XC90 didn't have.

Once more, no where am I trying to discount anything you've experienced or have experience with but just making sure we have the correct data and information before moving on with OP diagnosis. Yes, the ball is in his court. From here on everything IS above my pay grade with the 3.2 once he cleans the CAT and swaps the plugs, coils and injectors.

Lastly, I will be learning from your experience and vast knowledge base once when I get the shifter replaced on the 2012 XC90 AWD, with front tire jamb against the curb, pointing downward on the grade as the rear brakes aren't holding either .
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CAR MARKET:
United States and Canada

PARTNER:
3 US 7510 Volvo Car USA

ISSUE DATE:
2020-05-05
STATUS DATE:
2020-09-29

SERVICE:
4 cylinder (VEP) engine, perform TJ 30087 if applicable.
6 cylinder (SI6) engine, perform TJ 28530, 29332 or 30021 if applicable.
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[chitownV]

Yeah, the OP has been posting for months now.

This TJ does apply to the Si6 in both non-turbo and turbo variants. The other referenced TJs, which go deeper into the issues address the specific engine variants. This TJ is the process a dealership tech has to go through for proper diagnosis and warranty approval. In 2020, it still applies as many XC90s would still be serviced at the dealership.

Just because the design for the engine was updated does not mean carbon build-up is not an issue. In the video linked he talks about doing the pistons & rings in the updated Si6 engines, specifically 2010-2012 , and commenters have the later Si6 engines too with oil consumption issues. The maintenance is key in preventing carbon build up and many continued to use Volvo's 7,500-mile oil change interval well over 100k miles while consuming oil. The OP said the previous owner did not maintain it well.

A note about the oil, remember that a 5W-20 oil is thicker at room temperature than a 15W-40 is at operating temp. Thus, if your 15W suggestion creates a different issue, like if it blows the oil filter housing's anti-drain back valve on an already old vehicle, that's something to consider. A 5W-40 oil weight is the highest I would ever go in the Si6 engine and that depends on the owner's specific situation.

I want everyone to know that you and I have messaged each other privately before and we understand each other's specialties. I don't go into the older white blocks or red blocks because, though I have experience in them, it's not at the same level as newer white blocks and 3.2s.

Lol, back to the Driving test, which way to turn the wheels when parking on a hill. Hopefully, you can get the shifter assembly sorted, and the parking brake is probably a seized parking brake lever, but I know you are thorough and will take it all apart to inspect it all.

Back to the OP, Alon Egozi. It is on you now. You left the SS forum because you thought it was harsh to ask for information when you kept on demanding help. Only you can provide the information on your XC90. Also, I said this half a dozen times, and read the past posts again and again. If 5 things were mentioned, don't just give an update on one and then talk about something else. What is asked all matters for a proper diagnosis.

Good luck

[MoVolvos]

Yeah, the OP has been posting for months now.

This TJ does apply to the Si6 in both non-turbo and turbo variants. The other referenced TJs, which go deeper into the issues address the specific engine variants. This TJ is the process a dealership tech has to go through for proper diagnosis and warranty approval. In 2020, it still applies as many XC90s would still be serviced at the dealership.

Just because the design for the engine was updated does not mean carbon build-up is not an issue. In the video linked he talks about doing the pistons & rings in the updated Si6 engines, specifically 2010-2012 , and commenters have the later Si6 engines too with oil consumption issues. The maintenance is key in preventing carbon build up and many continued to use Volvo's 7,500-mile oil change interval well over 100k miles while consuming oil. The OP said the previous owner did not maintain it well.

A note about the oil, remember that a 5W-20 oil is thicker at room temperature than a 15W-40 is at operating temp. Thus, if your 15W suggestion creates a different issue, like if it blows the oil filter housing's anti-drain back valve on an already old vehicle, that's something to consider. A 5W-40 oil weight is the highest I would ever go in the Si6 engine and that depends on the owner's specific situation.

I want everyone to know that you and I have messaged each other privately before and we understand each other's specialties. I don't go into the older white blocks or red blocks because, though I have experience in them, it's not at the same level as newer white blocks and 3.2s.

Lol, back to the Driving test, which way to turn the wheels when parking on a hill. Hopefully, you can get the shifter assembly sorted, and the parking brake is probably a seized parking brake lever, but I know you are thorough and will take it all apart to inspect it all.

Back to the OP, Alon Egozi. It is on you now. You left the SS forum because you thought it was harsh to ask for information when you kept on demanding help. Only you can provide the information on your XC90. Also, I said this half a dozen times, and read the past posts again and again. If 5 things were mentioned, don't just give an update on one and then talk about something else. What is asked all matters for a proper diagnosis.

Good luck

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As soon as I can get the Shifter Assembly replaced the right front tire won't be swooshed against the curb parked down a large grade. The whole handle has come out of the assembly so can't even move it into gear unlike if it's just the Shifter Claw. Won't know anything about the car yet so not even considered a project at this time. The battery is out also so it was pretty much dead on arrival except for parking it.

Perhaps I'll get an opportunity to expand into the 3.2 territory?
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[chitownV]

Yeah, I’m sure your learning curve is quick. What you can do is remove the intake box and see if you can reach down to the transmission shift lever and manually move it into Park. With VIDA, you should be able to confirm the transmission gear position.

[EgoziAlon]

ChitownV:
What do you suggest on checking next?
How do you see from the pictures that the pcv might not be good?

[EgoziAlon]

By the way:

Nice video:
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/Vu4C2p ... tid=UalRPS