This fellow is said to be an SAE engineer, and his work shows up in other places. I first saw a shorter version of this test in a Studebaker club magazine, limited to results of adding ZDDP to other conventional oils. That discussion was naturally about flat tappet cammed motors.
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-turbo-f ... -zddp.html
The short take is that very high levels of combined ZDDP increases friction.
ZDDP level testing in gasoline engine oils
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foggydogg
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ZDDP level testing in gasoline engine oils
Last edited by foggydogg on 14 Dec 2022, 09:12, edited 1 time in total.
69 1800s, @500k Death by Rust
94 850 Turbo, T-boned, ambulance for me, crusher for it
97 855 T5, 855 R projects
98 V70R x2, Silver Junkyard rescue, Coral Red
98 V70GLT x2, parts cars
00 V70xc x2, both now dead
62 122s, gone to live in Richmond
56 445 Duett basket project
1950 Studebaker 2R10 flatbed, T9 crashbox
94 850 Turbo, T-boned, ambulance for me, crusher for it
97 855 T5, 855 R projects
98 V70R x2, Silver Junkyard rescue, Coral Red
98 V70GLT x2, parts cars
00 V70xc x2, both now dead
62 122s, gone to live in Richmond
56 445 Duett basket project
1950 Studebaker 2R10 flatbed, T9 crashbox
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foggydogg
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Other articles on the issue, again, mostly focused on flat tappet applications.
https://www.onallcylinders.com/2018/08/ ... ave-money/
All the high-performance forums warn against using any diesel oil in regular passenger car engines; as Lake Speed Jr. points out the detergent package is much higher, among other things.
Unlike some folks, I know for a fact I am not smarter than a building full of motor oil engineers.
https://www.onallcylinders.com/2018/08/ ... ave-money/
All the high-performance forums warn against using any diesel oil in regular passenger car engines; as Lake Speed Jr. points out the detergent package is much higher, among other things.
Unlike some folks, I know for a fact I am not smarter than a building full of motor oil engineers.
69 1800s, @500k Death by Rust
94 850 Turbo, T-boned, ambulance for me, crusher for it
97 855 T5, 855 R projects
98 V70R x2, Silver Junkyard rescue, Coral Red
98 V70GLT x2, parts cars
00 V70xc x2, both now dead
62 122s, gone to live in Richmond
56 445 Duett basket project
1950 Studebaker 2R10 flatbed, T9 crashbox
94 850 Turbo, T-boned, ambulance for me, crusher for it
97 855 T5, 855 R projects
98 V70R x2, Silver Junkyard rescue, Coral Red
98 V70GLT x2, parts cars
00 V70xc x2, both now dead
62 122s, gone to live in Richmond
56 445 Duett basket project
1950 Studebaker 2R10 flatbed, T9 crashbox
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MoVolvos
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This guy starts off as a politician
.
"Some folks, who REALLY believe the notion that more zinc in their oil will provide more wear protection, often throw a tizzy fit and get very nasty..."
The oils tested are all over the place in terms of intended use and additive packages for that intended use. Some are only for racing and they seemed to fair better, while ZDDP was added to boost the PPM in others. Frankenstein vs Werewolf and then the ZDDPlus added gets you the Mummy. "Finally... in other words, their “wear protection capability”, at 230*F." So the one last monster added to mix is the hot Swamp Thing at 230*F. Should be a Venom: Let There Be Carnage competition
.
.
"Most technically inclined gearheads understand the value of real world, motor oil “load carrying capacity/film strength” testing." No link and who designed this real word test at the real world day to day 230*F engine temp?
.
How much time and real world testing is needed for 40 different oils with various intended use to show real world wear in how many motors running at full a 230*F for how many miles
?.
.
Mileage Expectancy vs Temp.
http://spece30.com/uploads/default/orig ... 43c03e.png
.
.
.
This guy starts off as a politician
."Some folks, who REALLY believe the notion that more zinc in their oil will provide more wear protection, often throw a tizzy fit and get very nasty..."
The oils tested are all over the place in terms of intended use and additive packages for that intended use. Some are only for racing and they seemed to fair better, while ZDDP was added to boost the PPM in others. Frankenstein vs Werewolf and then the ZDDPlus added gets you the Mummy. "Finally... in other words, their “wear protection capability”, at 230*F." So the one last monster added to mix is the hot Swamp Thing at 230*F. Should be a Venom: Let There Be Carnage competition
..
"Most technically inclined gearheads understand the value of real world, motor oil “load carrying capacity/film strength” testing." No link and who designed this real word test at the real world day to day 230*F engine temp?
.
How much time and real world testing is needed for 40 different oils with various intended use to show real world wear in how many motors running at full a 230*F for how many miles
?..
Mileage Expectancy vs Temp.
http://spece30.com/uploads/default/orig ... 43c03e.png
.
- Temp Chart.png (61.4 KiB) Viewed 451 times
.
Blessings,
BKM
2008 C30 T5 2.0 M66
2007 S60 2.5T - New Project
2003 S80 T6 Transmission DIED
2000 S70 SE Base - New Project
1998 S70 T5 Prior
1989 240 Wagon Prior
BKM
2008 C30 T5 2.0 M66
2007 S60 2.5T - New Project
2003 S80 T6 Transmission DIED
2000 S70 SE Base - New Project
1998 S70 T5 Prior
1989 240 Wagon Prior
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MoVolvos
- Posts: 5273
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" Jeff Smith has had a passion for cars since he began working at his grandfather's gas station at the age 10. After graduating from Iowa State University with a journalism degree in 1978..."
"As an example, Speed offered the rather dramatic case of what happens when you mix baking soda and vinegar. If you’ve not witnessed this first-hand, the result is a foaming mess. Mixing ZDDP additive with your oil won’t be as dramatic as this vinegar-soda example, but unless you perform a chemical analysis of the oil after mixing, you really won’t know."
Very convincing? For a journalist perhaps.
.
https://www.onallcylinders.com/2018/08/ ... ave-money/
.
" Jeff Smith has had a passion for cars since he began working at his grandfather's gas station at the age 10. After graduating from Iowa State University with a journalism degree in 1978..."
"As an example, Speed offered the rather dramatic case of what happens when you mix baking soda and vinegar. If you’ve not witnessed this first-hand, the result is a foaming mess. Mixing ZDDP additive with your oil won’t be as dramatic as this vinegar-soda example, but unless you perform a chemical analysis of the oil after mixing, you really won’t know."
Very convincing? For a journalist perhaps.
.
https://www.onallcylinders.com/2018/08/ ... ave-money/
.
Blessings,
BKM
2008 C30 T5 2.0 M66
2007 S60 2.5T - New Project
2003 S80 T6 Transmission DIED
2000 S70 SE Base - New Project
1998 S70 T5 Prior
1989 240 Wagon Prior
BKM
2008 C30 T5 2.0 M66
2007 S60 2.5T - New Project
2003 S80 T6 Transmission DIED
2000 S70 SE Base - New Project
1998 S70 T5 Prior
1989 240 Wagon Prior
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foggydogg
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Lake Speed Jr. is a well-respected engineer, not just in the oil industry but engine component manufacturers as well. The individual in the first post is an engineer who has run SAE tests for years. Jeff Smith has been involved in automotive and Motorsports journalism for close to 50 years. Including a link to a youtube video of a heavy truck demo about oils specific to the diesel industry does just the opposite of disproving the conclusions drawn by the others in the early posts.
The oil in our turbocharged Volvo's are operating in the 230 degree range on a regular basis, especially in the turbo housing.
The oil in our turbocharged Volvo's are operating in the 230 degree range on a regular basis, especially in the turbo housing.
69 1800s, @500k Death by Rust
94 850 Turbo, T-boned, ambulance for me, crusher for it
97 855 T5, 855 R projects
98 V70R x2, Silver Junkyard rescue, Coral Red
98 V70GLT x2, parts cars
00 V70xc x2, both now dead
62 122s, gone to live in Richmond
56 445 Duett basket project
1950 Studebaker 2R10 flatbed, T9 crashbox
94 850 Turbo, T-boned, ambulance for me, crusher for it
97 855 T5, 855 R projects
98 V70R x2, Silver Junkyard rescue, Coral Red
98 V70GLT x2, parts cars
00 V70xc x2, both now dead
62 122s, gone to live in Richmond
56 445 Duett basket project
1950 Studebaker 2R10 flatbed, T9 crashbox
-
MoVolvos
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- Joined: 15 January 2012
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1) Where are the links?
2) Can't use a wide range of differing oils made for differing specific use for comparison?
3) If you were able to remove the ZDDP from all the oils the results would probably be the same with the racing oils on top. APM (Additive Package Matters)
4) A large volume of cooler oil going through one small hot component then going back into the cooler volume of oil for heat dispersion is not the same as an engine at 230 degree temp range at all times.
5) Bad testing parameters allows for muddy data, confusion and cherry picking data to suit ones own assumptions.
.
1) Where are the links?
2) Can't use a wide range of differing oils made for differing specific use for comparison?
3) If you were able to remove the ZDDP from all the oils the results would probably be the same with the racing oils on top. APM (Additive Package Matters)
4) A large volume of cooler oil going through one small hot component then going back into the cooler volume of oil for heat dispersion is not the same as an engine at 230 degree temp range at all times.
5) Bad testing parameters allows for muddy data, confusion and cherry picking data to suit ones own assumptions.
.
Blessings,
BKM
2008 C30 T5 2.0 M66
2007 S60 2.5T - New Project
2003 S80 T6 Transmission DIED
2000 S70 SE Base - New Project
1998 S70 T5 Prior
1989 240 Wagon Prior
BKM
2008 C30 T5 2.0 M66
2007 S60 2.5T - New Project
2003 S80 T6 Transmission DIED
2000 S70 SE Base - New Project
1998 S70 T5 Prior
1989 240 Wagon Prior
-
MoVolvos
- Posts: 5273
- Joined: 15 January 2012
- Year and Model: S&V70XC,S60,C30,XC90
- Location: NC
- Has thanked: 310 times
- Been thanked: 524 times
.
As for Speed. He may be well respected in his circle but his analogy is completely off comparing a basic acid to base reaction to ZDDP in the motor oil. As he also stated "unless you perform a chemical analysis of the oil after mixing, you really won’t know." And you won't know unless you use a single oil only with various amounts of ZNNP. Even then unless you test all the oil in that vane you won't know as the additive package is different in every oil and may react differently either improving or reducing the longevity of the motor.
Not rocket science but slow, tedious and costly work to get real data and that's just for one oil.
.
As for Speed. He may be well respected in his circle but his analogy is completely off comparing a basic acid to base reaction to ZDDP in the motor oil. As he also stated "unless you perform a chemical analysis of the oil after mixing, you really won’t know." And you won't know unless you use a single oil only with various amounts of ZNNP. Even then unless you test all the oil in that vane you won't know as the additive package is different in every oil and may react differently either improving or reducing the longevity of the motor.
Not rocket science but slow, tedious and costly work to get real data and that's just for one oil.
.
Blessings,
BKM
2008 C30 T5 2.0 M66
2007 S60 2.5T - New Project
2003 S80 T6 Transmission DIED
2000 S70 SE Base - New Project
1998 S70 T5 Prior
1989 240 Wagon Prior
BKM
2008 C30 T5 2.0 M66
2007 S60 2.5T - New Project
2003 S80 T6 Transmission DIED
2000 S70 SE Base - New Project
1998 S70 T5 Prior
1989 240 Wagon Prior