1985 740 Turbo - Sitting 5 years - Water (Coolant) in Oil

Redwoods_W · Post by **Redwoods_W** » 02 Feb 2009, 10:37

Hello -- Perhaps some of you can help on this. I have a 1985 740 Turbo automatic with 181K miles that was sitting for 4-1/2 years. Not good, I know. The car ran fine, smooth, and strong when last run. It was my main car, and ran great, as I remember. (I stopped driving it after purchasing a used '96 850 Turbo, but kept the 1985 740 around because it was a classic standard RWD Volvo, and I liked the car.)

Before attempting to start it up, I pulled the spark plugs and squirted some oil into each cylinder and let it sit for a day. Oil on the dipstick looked reasonably clean. Next day, turned it over with the plugs out. A fair amount (a cup or so?) of brown water came out of the #2 cylinder. Turned it over for a total of a minute or so. Coolant in the expansion tank was down, so added more. Put the spark plugs back in, and with about 30 seconds of cranking, the car started right up... with white smoke coming out of the exhaust. Holding my hand close to the exhaust pipe, the white smoke is wet.

I did not drain the gas tank -- old gas is in the tank. I put a canister of stuff designed to absorb water from the gasoline in the tank.

Ran the engine at idle to warm it up, and experimented with running the engine around 3,000 rpm. Did this over a period of a few days.

At this point, I have not driven the car, but have run it at idle and sometimes higher engine speeds while parked.
-- Coolant level does not appear to be dropping, though it could be subtle.
-- The engine oil has become the classic brown milkshake.
-- If the dipstick or oil-filler cap are left off, steam will be coming out of them.
-- Car comes up to temperature, and does not overheat.
-- Thermostat seems to be functioning properly.
-- The white smoke has pretty much vanished. It's there, but to a very small degree.

A compression test shows 180, 185, 200, 200. (At 22,000 miles earlier, I recorded 175, 182, 185, 197.)

At this time my plan is to change the engine oil and filter (perhaps two times), drain and flush the coolant.

My questions:
-- What would cause a car that is sitting to have a cylinder fill with coolant ?
-- Assuming it is a blown head gasket (which it more or less seems like) what would have a head gasket go bad from sitting ? Perhaps it was not so good before, and this was the tipping point. Perhaps there was a coolant drop before that I don't recall. And perhaps it is not a blown head gasket, but seepage of some other sort. (?)
-- I could replace the head gasket (suggest replace head bolts at that time, from what I've read) but want to explore other possibilites before getting into that.
-- Other posts say to look down the spark plug holes to see if the tops of the pistons are carbonized or clean. In this case, I don't suspect the engine has been run enough to clean off the top of a piston, but also, how does one look down the spark plug holes, even with a small mirror ? They are pretty well buried.
-- Why would the white smoke stop ?

I will appreciate any of your thoughts on this. I have owned and loved Volvos since the early 1970s, and was a shade-tree mechanic back then, mostly on 122 and 142 and then 240 models. I'm not afraid to replace the head gasket on this 740, but don't want to open it up if that's not the problem.

Thank you !

Post by **billofdurham** » 03 Feb 2009, 12:50

Welcome to Matthew's Volvo Site.

Did the water out of #2 cylinder contain any anti-freeze? Brown water would indicate not but it still does not explain where it came from. Certainly a head gasket could be indicated but other things you mention seem to rule this out. Have you checked the coolant to see how strong the anti-freeze is? Is it possible that at some time in the 4-1/2 years it has frozen? That could explain the head gasket going.

The white smoke coming out of the exhaust on start up is a common occurence in any engine left standing for even a few days as a lot of condensation occurs in the system and it makes white smoke as it disperses.

At this time the milk shake oil and steam coming from the filler hole and dipstick hole are to be expected. I would not have run the engine without changing the oil and filter first thus getting rid of any water that had collected in the oil.

I have never been able to work out how to look down a plug hole since I stopped working on side valve engines.

Bill.

Steven242 · Post by **Steven242** » 03 Feb 2009, 16:09

you said you let it sit for 4.5 years... and that after squirting oil into the cylinders you let it sit another day, then cranked it over without the plugs... Well, there is a possibility that when you parked the car, that cylinder was the only one with a valve fully open, right? Well with a valve open, either exhaust or intake, the condensation will build up over the years.

The anti freeze going down just a touch after letting it run, leads me to think that some just evaporated from the system and when it started up it just needed to flow thru again.

You should never run a car without changing the oil after it has been sitting for more than a few months...

Redwoods_W · Post by **Redwoods_W** » 04 Feb 2009, 10:19

Bill and Steven -- Thank you much for your replies. You are absolutely right that I should have changed the oil before even starting the car. Prior to starting the engine, the oil on the dipstick looked fine (no water), but that was not a good indication of the condition of the oil, as I now know.

Yesterday I changed the oil and filter, and drained the coolant and replaced it. (Also adjusted the belts, put in new headlights and wiper blades.)

The oil was thin and brown, as expected.

The engine seems to run fine with no trace of white smoke. The idle is rougher than what I'd like to see, but once I get it out on the road and run it a bit, that may clear up.

Bill, to respond to a question you posed -- Where I live, the temperature only occasionally drops to 28 or 30 degrees F. overnight, so not likely anything froze.

Around here, you see condensation in the morning on almost everything that's metal. So I suppose the water in the oil was just the result of 4-1/2 years of morning condensation cycles.

You mention that with water, the oil will turn brown. Is it a different color or consistency if coolant were to leak into the oil ?

Again, my thanks to both of you for your help.

Cheers,
-- Fred

Post by **billofdurham** » 04 Feb 2009, 12:50

You mention that with water, the oil will turn brown.

I asked if the cupful of water was brown or did it have anti-freeze in it. Anti-freeze would indicate a coolant leak otherwise it is most likely a build up of condensation.

The rough running could be fouled plugs, bad plug leads or even condensation inside the distributor.

Not too many cars would stand for that period of time and start never mind run like yours has done.

It now needs a good service and, hopefully, Thor will continue to smile on his creation.

Bill.

Steven242 · Post by **Steven242** » 04 Feb 2009, 18:37

Redwoods_W wrote:Bill and Steven -- Thank you much for your replies. You are absolutely right that I should have changed the oil before even starting the car. Prior to starting the engine, the oil on the dipstick looked fine (no water), but that was not a good indication of the condition of the oil, as I now know.

Yesterday I changed the oil and filter, and drained the coolant and replaced it. (Also adjusted the belts, put in new headlights and wiper blades.)

The oil was thin and brown, as expected.

The engine seems to run fine with no trace of white smoke. The idle is rougher than what I'd like to see, but once I get it out on the road and run it a bit, that may clear up.

Bill, to respond to a question you posed -- Where I live, the temperature only occasionally drops to 28 or 30 degrees F. overnight, so not likely anything froze.

Around here, you see condensation in the morning on almost everything that's metal. So I suppose the water in the oil was just the result of 4-1/2 years of morning condensation cycles.

You mention that with water, the oil will turn brown. Is it a different color or consistency if coolant were to leak into the oil ?

Again, my thanks to both of you for your help.

Cheers,
-- Fred

To answer that question, yes...

I work for a construction company, and we recently had an F350 Bucket Truck blow Both head gaskets... Oil and water were dissappearing... but no real sign of why until one day we just seen Oil draining from the tail pipe... we pulled the dipstick and it was a milky whitish brown, not like you explained yours was, more of a white like color, and reaked of antifreeze.