Attempting 850 speaker replacement.

Post by **kcodyjr** » 29 Mar 2011, 19:34

I'm doing the upgrade to my 1996 wagon and my 1997 sedan.

I'm unsatisfied with any amount of cutting and hacking, so I've tracked down some (alleged) adaptor brackets:

Autoleads SAK-3211 - dash tweeters, 36-56mm

Autoleads SAK-3204 - front door full grille replacement 93+, 130mm

Autoleads SAK-3205 - front door adapter ring 92-93, 130mm

Autoleads SAK-3213 - rear door full grille replaement, 130mm

Scosche SAVO5 - rear deck adapter plate, 5.25"/6.5" (??!! thats what it says)

No adapter located for the D-pillars yet, and I'm not hopeful.

I've ordered all the brackets to check them for myself, and a set of Pioneer TS-E1302i 130mm 2-way coaxials to test-fit in every location before I buy the whole batch. I expect them in a week or two; I'll take pictures and post them here.

I am still deciding on the dash tweeters; the Pioneer TS-S250 is a favorite at the moment, if it'll fit. No idea yet what I'm going to do with the D pillars, but I'm thinking to start with the factory mounting assembly.

My hope is to deliver here an upgrade plan that requires no cutting or hacking whatsoever, and everything pins in place with the correct number of screws. I also hope to find out whether there's an option in preserving or replacing the factory grilles. Naturally, all of this has to be ordered from European distributors to get the Euro sizes.

So, Wanted To Buy: a pair of D-pillar speakers, preferably blown, but with intact mounting plates. I'll find some on eBay if I must, but I'd rather recycle a pair that's already shot, and not dip into the ever-dwindling supply of good ones.

Cheers,
- Kevin

Post by **vjaneczko** » 29 Mar 2011, 22:08

This post may help you figure some stuff out. You may have to register on the site to read it, but it's worth it.

http://www.volvo-forums.com/t21128-ster ... -wagon.htm

Post by **polskamafia mjl** » 30 Mar 2011, 02:11

Once you get everything figured out, I would love to see a write up that is just plug in play! Good luck!

Post by **kcodyjr** » 03 Apr 2011, 16:34

Partial update; some of the brackets have arrived.

The Autoleads SAK- series adaptors appear to be made of injection molded plastic. It feels like decent stuff, but it will be necessary to scrape off the burrs.

The SAK-3204 consists of a replacement plastic frame plus a replacement black grille. The new frame looks just like the old one except for having the screw holes evenly spaced at 90 degrees from each other. I haven't pulled the original out of the car yet, so I can't say if it looks the same from the back. The new grille appears to be optional; I'll probably use it in the 96 for that black-n-tan look, and stick with OE grilles in the sedan. The new grilles should be more acoustically transparent near the center, but the hole isn't quite as wide as the OE's. The kit comes with 8 screws for securing the speaker to the bracket, and will rely on the OE screws for securing to the door.

The SAK-3211 consists of an OE-fit plate, and an adapter ring for smaller tweeter sizes. It does not come with screws.

The SAK-3205 and SAK-3213 have not arrived yet, nor have the speakers.

The Scosche SAVO5 for the sedan parcel shelf are indeed 5.25" or 130mm, made of sheet steel, and does not come with any screws. Based on the factory parts diagram, it appears to fit either within the existing box, or replacing it entirely; I will attempt both positions and let you know how they worked out.

So far, I do have to recommend the Scosche SAVO5 above the usual hack-and-slash approach, for the sole reason that these will not leak air. A cut-up factory speaker leaves a gap between the new speaker and the "plate" which will eat bass. Given sheet metal cutting tools, these could be adapted for larger sizes. Incidentally, this is the only piece that I've found available here in the States.

The particular vendor I chose for the SAKs seems to be a knucklehead; the bags were torn open and there was only one set of wire adapters in the whole package, very likely the wrong ones. They also don't seem to understand the rigors of international shipping, there was almost no packing material. I'll have to address this separately when the speakers arrive.

More to come.

- Kevin

Post by **Red-Arrow** » 03 Apr 2011, 20:51

Be prepared for a big drop in bass response with the Pioneers. The Volvo bass units have very unusual and large cone travel.

I would say who ever Volvo used to designed the original music system was a audiophile engineer with a mind for fidelity. The door speakers I suspect have the correct VAS matching the Volvo's doors. You just will not find a after market drive unit with the correct suspension to get good bass response.

Its highly recommended to add a subwoofer if replacing all the door speakers.

Post by **kcodyjr** » 03 Apr 2011, 21:04

I was thinking that; maybe an in-the-spare job for the wagon, and a hidden 8" under the parcel shelf.

You're right, for 5.25" speakers they've got surprising bass, but the rest of the range kind of sucks, especially up high.

If there was a factory-sourced Dynaudio package for the 850, this wouldn't be an issue, but I haven't heard of one.

That said, I'm hoping these particular Pioneers look better than most. We'll see. Supposedly they have a flat response from 35-40K, and certainly they an take more power than the factory units, especially old ones. A little brute force might overcome.

I have noted the OE front speakers don't have the same bass output as the rear, and people tend to do ill-fitting things trying to make the rears fit, which could be eating bass. Part of my goal here is to "do it right" to the furthest extent possible, with the likeliest reasonably priced speakers I can find, and answer the issue once and for all.

Post by **kcodyjr** » 05 Apr 2011, 08:31

Well. The TS-S250 isn't the right tweeter. Besides that I wound up buying a cheap Chinese knock-off on eBay, it turns out they only surface-mount. Still trying to get hold of Pioneer EU to find a voice-matched tweet that flush mounts into a 36mm or 56mm hole. In the end, if I must, I'll re-cut the holes to fit; it's the car itself that I'm unwilling to hack up.

Very likely, the best sounding tweeter would be the one from the TS-E130Ci, component version of the coaxials I've bought. I was thinking I'd rather have a two-way in the door than just the bottom half of a component. Anyone have a thought about that?

Maybe I should stick with the original layout of separate components in the front door/dash, coaxial in the rear doors?

This would mean custom crossovers though. Likely I'd install a cap in the tweets and run the front doors full-range, to continue completely avoiding wiring harness changes. Anyone have experience running separates without their supplied crossover?

Post by **ojdorson** » 05 Apr 2011, 09:29

The crossover box in component systems is a carefully integrated part of those speakers. Using them separately with caps/coils or your own choosing may or may not work out well for you. I'd try to keep the crossovers.

If you do use separates for the door/dash, you can consider putting the crossovers behind the head unit and re-using the car's existing wiring. I added an amp to my 850 by creating a T-Harness that plugged in between the head unit and factory harness - I had to cut the in-car piece from a junkyard and get the aftermarket harness for using a new head-unit with factory wiring. Then, I "t-ed" out the wires that I wanted from the car (the speaker wires) and left them disconnected from the head unit.
This is what I did...

: T-harness.jpg (7.27 KiB) Viewed 8115 times

The in-car harness side has separate wires for the door and dash speaker, but the aftermarket head-unit harness has the door and dash speakers daisy-chained together - you'll have to cut the chained one and then wire the dash and door individually to the correct places on the crossover box.

Post by **Red-Arrow** » 05 Apr 2011, 17:41

The front door drive unit is not suppose to have high frequency detail, it is a mid bass unit with no tweeter after all. The dash cone tweeter has the job of reproducing HF above 3Khz.

I just removed my Clarion speakers and re-installed the factor units but I re installed the Tannoy tweeters in the dash. This has made a big difference to the sound stage and high end detail.

I do not have room for a sub right now and tbh I don't really want one taking up a pile of space in the trunk.

Post by **kcodyjr** » 05 Apr 2011, 22:23

I know the front door doesn't play detail now, but I'm thinking it might do well there. We'll see; I've got two pair of rear doors that are definitely getting coaxials, so I can try them in the front as well and see if I like it.

I'm hoping to find a tweet that reaches down pretty low; I've seen some meant for a 1200Hz cutoff, I'd probably give them a capacitor to cut off just above the female vocal range. I've seen a couple I liked but haven't been able to get size specs yet.

I don't want a sub box in the trunk either; I'm thinking more like a free-air 8" mounted to the bottom of the parcel shelf, and if that doesn't work, there's still the under-seat positions. Actually, the sedan may do just fine with the 130mm's in the deck, the trunk is effectively an infinite baffle, IF you have a decent seal. The wagon doesn't have a trunk of course, but I'm thinking one of those whoopie pies that fits inside the spare tire rim would be all the help it really needs.

Pioneers are due to arrive around 4/12. International shipping is such a pain.