96 850R 225k miles No start, no crank RESOLVED - starter

Post by **ojdorson** » 31 Jan 2013, 10:31

Hey guys, I'd really appreciate some other brains thinking on this one. It's mega cold out and I really don't want to be tearing things apart if it's not the right fix. '96 850R, 225k miles

Last night, I left work at ~6pm (about 25º here in Chicago) and the car fired right up and drove fine. I went about 25 blocks and stopped to grab a Jimmy John's sandwich (mmmm, tasty!) - I parked the car and shut it off. I was inside for less than ten minutes. When I got back in the car and turned the key, nothing happened. The dash lights dimmed, of course, but there was no cranking and no clicking. I immediately thought maybe the PNP was to blame so I shifted to neutral and the car still wouldn't start. I rowed the shifter back and forth many, many times and there was still no difference. I did, occasionally, hear a click from the gear shifter location when I tried to start it.

Roadside assistance came out and tried to jump start me - no luck.
Got towed home.

So, is there anyway for me to BYPASS the PNP and get the car started? That way, I could prove the PNP switch was bad AND drive it over to my buddy's shop to work on it inside.
Is there anything else I should be scapegoating?

I've searched this board and have found PLENTY of information about the R&R of the PNP and cleaning/refurb'ing it. I can do that, but I don't want to do all that work in today's 17º weather.

Post by **ojdorson** » 31 Jan 2013, 12:21

My biggest question, really, is "assuming the PNP switch is bad, how do I start this car?"
Can I jump power directly to the starter? How can I get this thing moving under its own power?

Thanks, guys!

Post by **ojdorson** » 01 Feb 2013, 10:36

I'd really like to get the car started and moving under its own power... then I could get it into the garage and do the repair in relative comfort. Today's temp is 5º!

Any ideas, guys? Thanks!!

Post by **JDS60R** » 01 Feb 2013, 10:51

If the problem is just getting the starter to turn you can conduct the electricity across the two power terminals with a properly rated remote start switch. The small terminal can also be energized to activate the solenoid. You will need a remote switch for safety, I have never been able to start it with a screwdriver without performing some unwanted arc welding

Post by **regent** » 01 Feb 2013, 10:52

If you've attempted the correct jump-start procedure and the dash still went dim, I say the problem is too much resistance between the battery positive terminal and the starter power feed terminal. Look for discolored insulation, a corroded (loose) lug or post that causes a voltage drop huge enough to dim the dash when you attempt cranking.
Also, check for loose ground connections from battery negative to chassis - all the way to the engine block. A faulty ground strap from engine to chassis would often be the culprit for such loss of power).

The other possibility is a faulty starter drawing too much current but since this happened without any warning signs, it would mean a catastrophic failure.

Please post back what you found.
Thanks

Post by **ojdorson** » 01 Feb 2013, 14:03

JDS60R wrote:If the problem is just getting the starter to turn you can conduct the electricity across the two power terminals with a properly rated remote start switch. The small terminal can also be energized to activate the solenoid. You will need a remote switch for safety, I have never been able to start it with a screwdriver without performing some unwanted arc welding

So, one end of the remote start switch goes to the + (pos) battery terminal and the other end connects to the other big terminal on the starter that is NOT already connected to the + (pos) battery terminal, right? Then put the key in the Run position and push the remote starter button?

Thanks a bunch!

If that gets the car started and running properly, then I can rule out a bad starter and confirm a bad PNP switch, right?

Post by **ojdorson** » 01 Feb 2013, 14:09

regent wrote:If you've attempted the correct jump-start procedure and the dash still went dim, I say the problem is too much resistance between the battery positive terminal and the starter power feed terminal. Look for discolored insulation, a corroded (loose) lug or post that causes a voltage drop huge enough to dim the dash when you attempt cranking.
Also, check for loose ground connections from battery negative to chassis - all the way to the engine block. A faulty ground strap from engine to chassis would often be the culprit for such loss of power).

The other possibility is a faulty starter drawing too much current but since this happened without any warning signs, it would mean a catastrophic failure.

Please post back what you found.
Thanks

I had a problem with the car being dead and needing a jump-start a few times last winter and finally diagnosed the voltage drop problem you describe (except, my positive terminal wire is very clean). I ended up running a secondary starter wire in parallel with the factory wiring because I did not want to pull out the factory wiring in the winter. Since installing that second positive battery-to-starter cable, the car hasn't exhibited that no-start symptom again. The battery is only a year old, as well. The dash lights don't dim much when attempting to start the car - nowhere near completely going out - and when I was connected to the Jump Vehicle, the lights barely dimmed at all. Ground straps should all be in-place and tight with a smear of dielectric grease from when I had the head off 2+years ago.

Thanks for your input! I really appreciate any response!

Post by **JDS60R** » 01 Feb 2013, 14:16

Generally the starter switch goes between the positive wire at the starter and the solenoid trigger wire ( smallest of 3 bolts at starter)

This way you are triggering the solenoid remotely. If you can locate your starter relay you can trigger it from there as well.

Post by **regent** » 01 Feb 2013, 14:23

Exactly! With the remote start switch you will be sending control voltage to the starter solenoid coil. Once again, with the switch you will be closing the starter control circuit from Batt. positive to the solenoid coil, which is the smaller terminal, not the big one.

Post by **ojdorson** » 01 Feb 2013, 14:31

JDS60R wrote:Generally the starter switch goes between the positive wire at the starter and the solenoid trigger wire ( smallest of 3 bolts at starter)

I didn't get my head down in there, but I couldn't see more than two bolts on the starter...

This is what I can see... (not my image, it's from the fantastic head gasket walkthrough at Volvo 5-cylinder: How to Replace the Head Gasket

But, I'm guessing it looks like this...

And you mean clip it to the tab where the green wire is connected?

This is a great help! I'll be able to get it in the garage and work without freezing!