98 v70 Trouble w/ ATF line couplers on replacement radiator

[rwmm415]

Hi Folks,

While buttoning everything up following a radiator replacement, I discovered the metal retaining clips on the ATF line couplers don't snap into place as before. The hoses mate properly, fully inserted and snug. But the clips won't lock into the coupler. (the clips are properly oriented with the flared end towards the radiator.) I got out the caliper and measured the collar-to-collar distance on the coupler. I found that the tapered collar on the radiator is about 0.8 mm longer than the collar on the OE radiator and therefore the collar-to-collar distance has increased likewise.

My question: Short of going back to square one and finding a better-fitting replacement radiator, is there some easy way to solve this? For example, are these clips available in different sizes? Can I find clips that have this new longer collar-to-collar distance?

Here's a picture of the two lines going into the radiator with the couplers circled for reference. This isn't my car BTW -- it's just a picture I found on the web of a Volvo with similar ATF line connections. The clips are the shiny brassy metal bits around the couplers. Sorry I don't have a close-up.



Thank you all in advance for your collective wisdom!

[Ozark Lee]

If you can get the clips to a point where they would snap in place if they were "springier" then you can use a hose clamp (it doesn't need to be real tight) to form the retainer back around the socket. You can also use a big zip tie.

...Lee

[holler1]

I went out and looked at the couplers on my radiator, and took a picture - attached below. I'm pretty sure it should be the same as yours. If I'm understanding you correctly, the distance between the "collar" on the radiator to the collar on the line is 0.8 mm longer than the clip itself. If that is true, the clip should still go in unless the inner collars are too far apart.

In any case, it looks to me as if you could file down the parts of the clip that slip in between the collars to make it fit. Take a close look at the picture and you should be able to see the parts (lower side of the picture) that actually hold the line to the radiator fitting. That would seem much easier than replacing the radiator.

Per CN90 post, which makes a good point, you can also see the thick and thin sides of the clip in this photo. Thick to the left (rad), thin to the right (engine side). Look at it about 1/3 of the way from the bottom. These clips don't really have a flared end that I can tell.

[cn90]

The Clip: THICK side faces the rad. THIN side faces the engine.
Then add a standard screw-type clamp around the clip.

See the photos in this DIY.

DIY: 1998 S70 GLT Trans Cooler Line Rebuild for $10!
https://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/forums ... hp?t=55794

[rwmm415]

Hi Holler1 and CN90,

Thanks for your replies. CN90, I do have the clip oriented correctly, but it won't snap in behind the collars as it should. (see photos below).

I used the term "flared-end of the clip" following the lead of Ben McNally I saw in a youtube clip sponsered by FCP Euro. I agree with you both-- I think the terms "thick end" and "thin end" are clearer.

Holler1, thank you so much for taking the photo of your hose connection and your thoughts on modifying the clips. I annotated your photo to clarify the problem.

OE coupler

v70 rad at connector[ANNOT].JPG (132.42 KiB) Viewed 1533 times

Basically, the clip works by having the thick band (a) snap in behind the tapered collar (b) on the radiator side and the thin band (d) snap in behind the square collar (c) on the hose. This can only happen if the distance between the two bands (red arrow) is equal to the collar-to-collar distance (when the hose is fully inserted)-- as it is in your OE setup.

My Coupler

In picture 2 -- my car -- you can see that the coller-to-collar distance is now greater than the gap between the thin and thick bands, so the clip will not seat properly. I have pushed in the hose repeatedly hoping to get it to go another 0.8 mm, but it just isn't gonna happen. As I said before, the flared collar on the new radiator is just longer (as measured with calipers) than the one on the OE rad.

Strangely, the couplers seem to be working with the clips installed "cock-eyed" as shown in the photo. The thin band catches on the square collar on one side of the clip and the thick band catches on the tapered collar on the other side. Then I stabilize it with a tie wrap (not shown). I've got about an hour of driving on it so far and I can't see any leakage. I don't like it, but if it works, it works.

A couple of final thoughts: I guess you could fix this by filing. Holler1, you suggested filing the bands on the clip to increase the gap. I'm thinking instead maybe I could file off part of the tapered collar (a notch on each side) to shorten the effective collar-to-collar distance. I think I'm more likely to damage or weaken the clip by grinding away metal than doing the same to the tapered collar.

Also, the manufacturer PBI (aka, "Pacific Auto") seems to be legit. I've seen this radiator model (PR2099A) for sale in a number of places online. If this wasn't a proper equivalent then lots of other people would have complained before me. I still have a nagging sense this problem is the result of something I did wrong. So I'm hoping that someone may read this thread in the future, recognize where I went wrong and tell me how straighten it out.

Thanks all...

[cn90]

Is distance "b" the same for OE vs new radiator (it looks the same with my eyes)? In otherwords, is the aftermarket rad mfg'd properly?

If so, then something inside the radiator side prevents the coupler from seating properly.
Did you use Volvo O-ring or aftermarket O-ring?

Your photo suggests that the coupler does not seat properly.

I'd remove the coupler and inspect to be sure you don't have extra O-ring sitting in there. The bottom line is: only PN #27 and #28 sit in there, and they must be in the proper grooves!

[cn90]

You may want to review this excellent DIY by "jreed":
https://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/forums ... hp?t=54118

Scroll down and you will see the photos of where O-rings should be...

[cn90]

PS: I think I know where your problem is...from the photo you posted, the I.D. of the aftermarket rad may be a tad small, preventing the clear O-ring from going in. The black O-ring area is smaller so it goes in fine.

The problem is in the clear O-ring area, it has a wider diameter. So if the aftermarket rad is machined a bit tight, then the clear O-ring won't go in, unless:
- You use sandpaper to enlarge the rad opening (only at the area where the clear O-ring sits!).
- Trim the clear O-ring a bit.

The sealing of ATF fluid is accomplished by the black O-ring.

The clear O-ring's sole function is like "shock absorber", many cars don't even have this clear O-rings thingy. In other words, this clear O-ring is the over-killed engineering from Volvo.


PS: whatever you do, fix this right. My upper line came off on the highway (lost all ATF). Long story short, the shop that replaced my RMS put the clip backward (THICK side ---> engine!!!). It took a while for the clip to come loose, but it was scary losing all transmission, i.e., car not moving at all. And add freezing rain on top of that. It was Dec 2009.....Lesson learned LOL!

[holler1]

Holler1, thank you so much for taking the photo of your hose connection and your thoughts on modifying the clips. I annotated your photo to clarify the problem.

You're welcome and thanks for the annotation.

In picture 2 -- my car -- you can see that the coller-to-collar distance is now greater than the gap between the thin and thick bands, so the clip will not seat properly. I have pushed in the hose repeatedly hoping to get it to go another 0.8 mm, but it just isn't gonna happen. As I said before, the flared collar on the new radiator is just longer (as measured with calipers) than the one on the OE rad.

Yes, that seems clear with your picture. It looks to me as if the two metal parts (radiator and hose end) are touching, so the O rings are seated. You should be able to tell for sure by looking at it directly.

Strangely, the couplers seem to be working with the clips installed "cock-eyed" as shown in the photo. The thin band catches on the square collar on one side of the clip and the thick band catches on the tapered collar on the other side. Then I stabilize it with a tie wrap (not shown). I've got about an hour of driving on it so far and I can't see any leakage. I don't like it, but if it works, it works.

I would not trust that as a long-term fix. With the "normal" installation, any tension between the thin band and thick band is applied across the solid metal. With the "cock-eyed" installation, if the hose is pulled, the tension will tend to pull the clip open against its spring action.

A couple of final thoughts: I guess you could fix this by filing. Holler1, you suggested filing the bands on the clip to increase the gap. I'm thinking instead maybe I could file off part of the tapered collar (a notch on each side) to shorten the effective collar-to-collar distance. I think I'm more likely to damage or weaken the clip by grinding away metal than doing the same to the tapered collar.

Your approach makes sense to me and it should work. Just be careful not to cut in too deep. Alternately, I think you could wrap some strong/stiff wire a few times around the collars, making sure to bring it into the gaps where the clips are supposed to fit, then tie it off tightly. Or a metal hose clamp should work. I don't think a plastic zip tie alone would be strong enough or tight enough.

[abscate]

Stiff wire would be my solution. You could even use stainless wire to alleviate concerns over corrosion. Do several figure 8 like a boat cleat, picking up each flange on each turn and that joint will be held better than OEM