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Strange intermittent short stutter '95 850 t5 Topic is solved

Help, Advice and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's P80 platform cars -- Volvo's 1990s "bread and butter" cars -- powered by the ubiquitous and durable Volvo inline 5-cylinder engine.

1992 - 1997 850, including 850 R, 850 T-5R, 850 T-5, 850 GLT
1997 - 2000 S70, S70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70, V70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70-XC
1997 - 2004 C70

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kaneelschep
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Year and Model: '96 850 2liter t5
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Strange intermittent short stutter '95 850 t5

Post by kaneelschep »

Mod note: Benzine translates to gasoline/petrol here in the States/UK

Hi all.

I have a weird intermittent problem.
Nomally there is nothing wrong with the engine. It starts, drives and drives and drives. No problem at all. And I easily drive over 20000km a year through the whole of Europe.
It has almost new ignition with bosch distributorcap/rotor, leads, ngk irridium plugs. New bosch benzine/oil filter and new Shell 5/40 full synthetic oil. Original Airfilter is clean.

BUT Sometimes, out of the blue it get's the stutters for a few minutes. And when it is gone, it stays gone. Sometimes for months.

It only seems to happen when i am just waiting at a light, traffic jam or just got started.
When it happens the benzine usage meter goes way up to 50 or just under it.
It will rev more slow and harder to get up. Also pushes out a bit of unburned fuel smoke from the exhaust.
When it stops, the meter goes to normal again, smoke is gone, and the whole problem is gone.
It happened about 3 times now this year.

Maybe related
Last summer it was increadibly warm, 40+ C and it had starting problems when parked uphill. Had to crank for a really long time (minute in two three cranks) before it would finaly start. Did a lot of crappy clay, gravel, shocky up/downhill roads that summer.
Actually do that every summer and 4 other times a year. Its the road to a Holiday house ;)

Since I drive a lot. I probably have to say that I drive the car until the tank is empty. So only when the computer sais 20km more to go, I tank.
I dont tank expensive additive benzine. Just normal plain cheap european 95 octane. I stay far away from e85 or what the french and germans sell as 95 plus 10% ethanol.
I noticed no difference in performance or stutter when trying 98, 100 or 102 octane, wich is very affordable and everywhere availlable on my many trips through Germany.
And as we all know, you can actually test that difference in Germany. ;) Driving the Volvo well over 200km/h is really not at all strange to me. Or hunting some fast audis or bmws through traffic for some time. And other times I just do 120km/h on the CC to save benzine. ahum.. well save.. It still does almost 9L then.. :roll: I never ever seek the rev limits or push it too far.
Never had the stutter at speeds.

I hope someone can give me some advice since I want to get an LPG setup. And therefor I want it to be as perfect as possible.

Thans!!

goldmandan
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Post by goldmandan »

The intermittent "hickup" may be a tiny vacuum leak or even a small leak in the emissions control system/evaporative system (causing the rich running condition). I would do a look over the emissions control/evap hoses and see if any are cracked or needing replaced.

kaneelschep
Posts: 279
Joined: 19 June 2013
Year and Model: '96 850 2liter t5
Location: Holland
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Post by kaneelschep »

I suspected a vacuumleak somewhere too. So i changed a lot of old looking tubes. and i swapped all injector rubbers. 4 per cylinder. They were cheap at volvo dealer and its an easy and fast job.
When i took The 4th injector out of the rail, i didnt find the little flat rubber wich is supposed to be in there.
Havent driven a lot yet, but it seems less sluggish when dropping in rpm after acceleration.
Less sticking.
I want to do the breather thing too soon. But have to find a good kit first.
And lets see if this helped.

beigg
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Year and Model: 850 97
Location: Est. Mi

Post by beigg »

kaneelschep wrote:When i took The 4th injector out of the rail, i didnt find the little flat rubber wich is supposed to be in there.
:?:

picture?
ugh smh 850 Turbo fridge

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abscate
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Post by abscate »

Goedemiddag!

Check the fuel pressure regulator (FPR) on your car. If the diaphragm is leaking it will put excess fuel into your motor on an occasional time, which sounds like your symptom.
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kaneelschep
Posts: 279
Joined: 19 June 2013
Year and Model: '96 850 2liter t5
Location: Holland
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Post by kaneelschep »

@beigg
I do not have pictures of them in the rail. But there are supposed to be 5 little flat rubbers in the rail. One in each hole. Wich you push the top of the injector against.
The one in the fourth injector hole was missing in my car.
This is a link to the ones I mean.
http://www.estateservices.nl/motor/bran ... -rail.html

@abscate
Heey goedemiddag! :D
Thanks a lot for this info! It does sound very logical.
Is there maybe a way I can visualy recognize a problem with it? Or test it somehow?

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erikv11
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Post by erikv11 »

One qualitative test for the FPR is to pull the vacuum line and smell it. If it smells strongly of petrol, there is a leak inside the FPR. A faint smell is OK, but not a strong one. Not a foolproof test, but an easy one.
'95 854 T-5R, Motronic 4.4, 185k
'98 V70, T5 tune-injectors-turbo, LPT engine, 304k, daily driver
'06 S60 R, 197k
'07 XC70, black, 205k
'07 XC70, willow green, 212k
'99 Camry V6 :shock: 153k
gone: '96 NA 850 210k, '98 NA V70 182k, '98 S70 NA 225k, '96 855 NA 169k

kaneelschep
Posts: 279
Joined: 19 June 2013
Year and Model: '96 850 2liter t5
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Post by kaneelschep »

I had it again a few times yesterday. Again on a relative warmer day.
Car also did not want to start once. Had to crank 2 times for a very long time (half a minute) until it made sort of a hickup against compression. After wich it started like normal. And normal is maybe 3-4 turns until she starts.

Smelled the vacume tube on the Fuel pressure regulator today, and you can clearly smell benzine. I dont know if it is too much and it is also not at the exact moment it has the problem. But I took the gamble and ordered a new Bosch 280 160 554 FPR.
Lets see if it solves the issue.

kaneelschep
Posts: 279
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Year and Model: '96 850 2liter t5
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Post by kaneelschep »

The fuel pressure regulator has been replaced, but it did not fix the problem.
Last week it started to sputter again. this time on the highway doing a 100.
It did not want to do more rpm than 2000. When I pumped the gas, it tried to rev up, but it couldnt go beyond 2000. Spewing some black smoke from the exhaust.
After a km or so, the benzine usage meter went down again and she started to run like normal again.

Its clear that it is suddenly injecting way too much fuel to burn. So either the ignition is failing. Or the air/injection is going wrong.
What could it be???
I read about throttlebody, maf and throttle sensor wich all influence the air/benzine injection.
The strange thing is that it only does this once or twice per month for a minute or so. And then drives thousands of kms without any issue.
With a worn maf or throttlebody it would always have problems idling or correcting it. Wich it never has.
Idle is perfect at around 900. Sometimes a little higher, but never moving up or down.

I am almost certain it mst be some sensor dying. But wich???

beigg
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Joined: 22 September 2013
Year and Model: 850 97
Location: Est. Mi

Post by beigg »

Coolant Temp sensor at T-Stat would cause flooding out as well. Hows the connectors to it? If they appear good, Ohm test the sensor.
ugh smh 850 Turbo fridge

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