98 V70 TB Idler Pulley Offset W/ Belt Topic is solved

Post by **sleddriver** » 25 Mar 2016, 20:14

Notice how the idler pulley is offset back from the front edge of the TB. Odd that... Is this normal? The TB is on the front edge of both camshaft pulleys, centered on both the crank & WP pulleys. The IP is a Volvo part and doesn't make any noise. Not sure if it was like this from the beginning or if the belt is "walking" because the IP bearing is going Tango Uniform. The TB isn't at all loose.

Is it possible there is more than one Volvo ID? One that sticks out farther, with no offset?

Please advise....

Post by **Ozark Lee** » 26 Mar 2016, 06:37

The idler pulley looks skewed to me but that could just be the picture.

Was anything recently changed? How does the belt track across the camshaft sprockets?

...Lee

Post by **oragex** » 26 Mar 2016, 09:37

The idler seems indeed too recessed for some reason. With the engine off and cold, you can push the belt at the cam pulleys with the fingers to get it better centered.

Post by **erikv11** » 26 Mar 2016, 10:04

sleddriver wrote: ... Is it possible there is more than one Volvo ID? One that sticks out farther, with no offset? ...

Negative on that one.

Another thought, does the belt wander on any of the pulleys when the engine is running?

Post by **kahl** » 26 Mar 2016, 14:45

To me it looks like that assembly is ready to come apart. I would not drive the car. You are so lucky to have found this before it catastrophically fails.

Post by **sleddriver** » 26 Mar 2016, 21:10

Ozark Lee wrote:The idler pulley looks skewed to me but that could just be the picture. Was anything recently changed? How does the belt track across the camshaft sprockets?...Lee

It is skewed when looked at from below:

This photo was taken with the engine running. The shiny, silver/steel portion of the pulley is a different color/texture than that in contact with the belt! Notice the red, surface rust up from the shiny steel...odd that.

No, nothing has recently been changed.

Here's how the belt tracks across the camshaft sprockets:

oragex wrote:The idler seems indeed too recessed for some reason. With the engine off and cold, you can push the belt at the cam pulleys with the fingers to get it better centered.

I did try this after removing the upper TB cover. Pushed the belt to the middle of the sprockets and moved it over on the TB IP. As soon as I started the engine though, it went back to it's previous position. Makes sense....everything seems to be in alignment except for the TB IP. Could it be the wrong one? I used a Conti belt instead of Volvo BB....maybe that's it. Looks like I'll need to investigate further....

erikv11 wrote:Another thought, does the belt wander on any of the pulleys when the engine is running?

No wander at all when running.

kahl wrote:To me it looks like that assembly is ready to come apart. I would not drive the car. You are so lucky to have found this before it catastrophically fails.

Fortunately, the wheels haven't come off yet, but it is very screwy looking.

More photos:

You can see the IP has a distict "line" from top to bottom where the belt has run vs. where it hasn't. For a minute I thought this was something else, maybe stationary, then verified it's all the same pulley surface that rotates.

This "red, rust" seen on the IP's triangular mounting plate is odd. When looking further at a slightly different angle, I noticed black streaks, like the belt had been hitting the mounting plate. Not sure why this would rust here...odd that. Nor why the TB would glance against the plate. More "odd that"...

Though I've never done a TB service myself, I've planned on doing this one. Now with what I've found, I'm more curious than ever about just what-the-heck is going on here. Me & my critical eye....I have a long history of spotting things others seem to miss. Not always appreciated, but, there it is.

Looks like I'll have to go in there and remove everything for a closer look. Now I'm curious.....

Post by **oragex** » 27 Mar 2016, 06:09

Maybe try pushing it to the middle on all gear pulleys including wp and crank one if accessible (a flat screwdriver can help). It's interesting, when I push sideways my tb on the cam pulleys it then runs where I place it. Maybe a pulley is not running straight?

Post by **sleddriver** » 28 Mar 2016, 17:06

UPDATE:

My indy called me after seeing the above photos and said something is definitely WRONG and advised I not drive the car! So I went out to remove some TB parts and discover just what-the-heck is going on in there.

I found CN90's guide on TB R&R excellent for someone like me who has never done this before.

I had no problems extracting any of the bolts (fortunately). Nothing stuck, stripped or rusted.

Here's the TB IP fully exposed. While I didn't detect any bearing play, it is 'raspy' when spun and quickly stops in about 6sec. The mysterious 'rust red/orange' appears to be from the rear bearing seal...bearing an orange color. The gap is tight there and I was unable to get a close-up photo. It is a geniune IPA, German-made. With that said, it's worn out at 71,000mi in the heat of Texas.

Here's a better look at the 'vertical line' on the TB IP.

The TB TP was indeed loose, quite dry, "raspy" and proceeded to spin for > 30sec! Quite surprised for a German INA. Small wonder Volvo includes these two pulleys + the belt in one of their kits. My experience here is that both NEED replacement NOW.

Off to pick up parts....more later.....

Post by **erikv11** » 28 Mar 2016, 18:09

Good pickup, thanks for the great documentation.

Those pulleys shouldn't even spin one second much less six seconds, compare with the new when you get them.

Post by **sleddriver** » 28 Mar 2016, 19:13

Update:

Just back from a local Advanced Auto that can also get parts from a local World-Pac Warehouse. The brand-new INA TB IP was loose...right out of the box! It was just as loose as the one I just removed! To further add to my disappointment, I opened a Conti TB "kit" only to find the TB IP inside was a no-name unit that I could hear 'rumble' when held up to my ear and turned by hand!!! The TB TP in the box was geniune INA, made in Slovakia: No slop and dead quiet when given the "listen, spin" test.

When I asked if they could order an INA TB TP, the guy said only PPS was available....doesn't make sense if they stock the INA TB IP. He wasn't the brightest bulb......nor the sharpest knife. No joy.

The PPS lower transmision torque mount was sure pliable on the large dia. bushing end....a bit TOO pliable for my taste & $27. So I left empty handed!

Earlier I called the local dealer....They don't even stock the Volvo BB timing kit. Further, they wanted $225 for it.

So I asked about the IP alone....nope....special order.

So tomorrow I'll call three indy shops and check availability, manufacturers & prices. May wind up just getting everything mail-order. I've borrowed a car for a few days so I'm not out transportation.

I'd suggest checking any & every-thing out of the box before installing it. Even if it IS an OEM-supplier. These days you never know....