Is this axel seal wrong way around?

Sardine · Post by **Sardine** » 23 Jul 2018, 00:57

This is the installed left driveshaft seal for a V50 2005. Since the transmission is an AW55-50SN, it should be familiar to a lot of you.
I'm having a very hard time removing this seal and I suspect it is installed back to front. Due to oil leak, this car failed what we aussies calls a Road Worthy Certificate when I bought it about 2 months ago. The previous owner had it fixed before delivering the car. I happened to look underneath a few weeks ago and spotted the oil leak again. Since replacing an axel seal seems easy, and wanting to fix it properly, I decided to do it myself. Well, the mechanic who did it absolutely rammed the seal in, the wrong way?, and now it doesn't want to come off. Can somebody tell me if this thing is installed back to front, and more importantly, how to remove it?
I should mention that an oil seal tool is on the way. But even then I have little hope.
Is putting in a few screws in order to pull the seal out advisable? I don't really want to scratch the two aluminium sealing surfaces. What is underneath this seal?

Post by **erikv11** » 23 Jul 2018, 07:46

Yes, it's in backwards. Her his a look at the seal from both side: https://www.eeuroparts.com/Parts/7939/A ... s-6843112/. The garter spring should be in, the metal surface should be out.

It is also jammed all the way back, it should instead be flush with the surface of the case. Use a block of wood larger than the hole to tap n the new one.

It looks like you tried the screw method, was there no room to install a sheet metal screw before you hit the case surface behind it? That's the first line of attack. You just need to get in one or two shreds, then you can pull the seal out with vice grips. If not then I'd use an axle seal puller (except I don't have one ...) or even a screwdriver, try to get under the inner lip that is visible there and pry it out.

Behind the seal is a smooth surface of the trans case. It is not the end of the world if you mar that surface as it is not sealing, but we all try very hard not to. And you don't want any metal flakes getting inside the transmission.

Sardine · Post by **Sardine** » 23 Jul 2018, 16:59

Thanks erikv11.
Yes, I did tried the screw method. Since I didn't know what's behind the seal, I didn't try very hard as I was afraid of recoverable damage and dropping stuff into the transmission. If behind the seal is the transmission case, then is the inner aluminium part also rotates along with the driveshaft? If not, what's the point of the seal? If you think I might have a chance with the axle seal puller, then perhaps I'll wait for my puller. It's a safer option.
Thanks.

dlundblad · Post by **dlundblad** » 23 Jul 2018, 18:46

I would try this style. It has a blade that will go in behind the seal.

https://www.google.com/search?q=lisle+5 ... e&ie=UTF-8

Sardine · Post by **Sardine** » 24 Jul 2018, 00:47

Hi dlundblad, yes that's the one I just received today. By "...go in behind the seal", do you mean to say I have to push the blade in between the aluminum shaft (inner or outer?) and the seal. Wouldn't this mar the sealing aluminium surface? Frankly, I can't see any place where this puller can hook onto in order to lever the damn thing out, unless going behind the seal like you said. But then wedging the metal blade against the aluminium surface seems a bit extreme.

dlundblad · Post by **dlundblad** » 24 Jul 2018, 04:02

Looks like the seal is nested in a bowl shaped area. Shouldn't matter where you start with the puller honestly, but I'd probably start with the outer diameter and see what happens. Press the little bend in, adjust the "leverage arm" to where it's resting on something solid and gently pry around the seal every 90 degrees or so until it comes out.

Be gentle obviously.. I didn't have an issue with it when I did the camshaft seals (and I had to pry on one very very hard) and this is certainly better than a screwdriver. LOL.

Post by **erikv11** » 24 Jul 2018, 07:15

Yes with this nice tool you should be able to get it out pretty easily.

The sealing surface is around the perimeter of the seal, think of the outer surface of a hoop. The back (circular) face is not a sealing surface and there should be no moving or mission critical parts against the back face. a little scuff there will not be an issue, if it happens. On a properly installed seal there will be a several millimeter gap between the back circle of the seal and the metal of the trans.

Also remember you can trash the seal itself during removal, it doesn't really matter how you get it out as long as it pops out. E.g. see the pic here using pliers to pull one out. viewtopic.php?t=56922

Sardine · Post by **Sardine** » 25 Jul 2018, 14:40

Thanks, everybody. It's all done now.
In the end the drill and screw triumphed. The seal puller just did not have any thing to pull on.
By the way, I leave here some thought on how best to remove and install the driveshaft, just in case someone wanted to know.
The driveshaft is held in the transaxle by a circlip. This circlip has a roughly 30 degree arc gap and it is slightly larger than the driveshaft groove.
The best orientation for this gap, for removing/installing the driveshaft, is the 6 o'clock.
On removing the driveshaft, you can't tell the orientation of the gap. That's why you have to turn the driveshaft, shake it by pulling/pushing on the driveshaft to get gravity to lower the circlip. In this postion, the top of the circlip disappears inside the driveshaft groove leaving only the sides outside the groove, making it easier to lever the driveshaft out of the transaxle. I inserted a small pry bar into the ~1/4 inch gap between the cv joint and the axle, hit the other end with a small block of wood. On the second revolution it came out. On the first revolution, I used the palm of my hand and it was just not strong enough.
On installing the driveshaft, position the gap at 6 o'clock, i.e. at the bottom. Push the circlip down to make the top disappear inside the grove and try to push the driveshaft into the transaxle. You have to jiggle the driveshaft to ensure that the driveshaft splines engage with the transaxle. I managed to get the driveshaft in without any hammering.
Here is a picture to make it easier to understand.

Post by **erikv11** » 25 Jul 2018, 21:55

That's a nice tip about the oreintation of the circlip.

For pulling a driveshaft, tapping a tapered wedge straight up from the 6 PM position is supremely effective and no worry about prying against on spot on the thin casing of the transaxle. Use a 5/8 chisel or even a triangular piece of hardwood.