Hard to Start After DIY Work

miley · Post by **miley** » 26 Aug 2020, 10:22

Hey friends. I'm a long time learner from this forum but have just now made an account. I have a 2009 3.2 that my wife loves very much. It is a well taken care of XC90 and has 97k on the odo.

Let me preface this whole thing with the fact that I am not a mechanic and have been learning every bit of this as I go along. I also like to ramble, so sorry in advance.

Few weeks ago the car began driving very rough. I bought an ODB2 and it showed P0306 and P0206. After much research, I found no resistance on fuel injector 6 with the voltometer.
I replaced all of the fuel injectors..... I'll admit I bought remanufactured ebay injectors. Codes went away, car ran like a dream!

Two days later the car is very hard to start. When it does start it runs totally fine.
At first it was presenting no ODB2 codes. This problem happens at cold start and does not seem to be happening at all when the engine is at temp.

I replaced the fuel filter and rented a fuel injection kit.... the only pressure release valve that I could find on the car was directly behind the fuel filter. The car runs at ~62 psi... and there is not a super quick pressure fall off after turning the car off... like 40psi 20 minutes sitting. (so that counts out a failing fuel pump right?)
There does not appear to be any pressure release on the fuel rail so I can not test the pressure there that I know of.

After replacing the fuel filter I have a new DTC. P0172 - System too rich bank 1.

Just thinking of other random things: Ignition coils are clean and nice... When I installed the injectors I used vaseline and was exxxtremely careful. Spark plugs are newish but I am replacing them again. Oil changed recently. Prior to installing the injectors I meticulously cleaned everything around the holes to ensure no crud messing up the seals. The car battery has had no problems. The starter has never had any problems. No smell of gasoline.

I have lots of the live diagnostic data from the ODB2 that I am incapable of making sense of, and have not been able to find much online to explain.

What I am going to do now: Clean the MAF. Check the age and voltage of the battery. Replace the spark plugs (they just arrived). I also had bought a new fuel rail pressure sensor and MAF sensor online and they will be here by Aug 31 I believe. I was thinking about the O2 sensors but know nothing about them.

Any ideas or pointing in a different direction would be very appreciated! I can provide any pics or video of the car or the ODB2 scanner.
Thanks!!

chitownV · Post by **chitownV** » 26 Aug 2020, 12:23

Good work. You can now call your self a backyard mechanic, lol. You are starting with the right things and testing the right parts. Change those wear parts. Even if they don't affect the starting issure, it's still a good idea to do the 100k maintenance and replace many of these parts.

Can you describe more about when the car is difficult to start. Is this in the morning when the engine is cold, when doing a quick errand and stopping for 5 mins, after 2 hours when the engine is kind of warm-not yet cold, etc.

Also, how is it difficult to start. Does it just turn over and you don't hear any catching of the engine? Does it turn over at all? Does it turn over freely, like there isn't any fuel or ignition?

miley · Post by **miley** » 26 Aug 2020, 13:32

Thanks! Just came in from replacing the spark plugs and cleaning the MAF. I also have been making a video detailing my efforts and the issue... My wife wants me to call our Volvo mechanic in town, and I probably will, but I'm not yet willing to hand it over knowing just the cost of having fuel injectors replaced.

So, it is currently 96 degrees outside, and at rest the car has the starting issue. Once started and idled for any period of time the issue either seems to be so breif it is indiscernible or it is gone completely. The noise when starting is like an "im trying im trying im trying" kind of noise. Sorry I can't explain it better, but it will be in the recording Im making. The engine does not seem to catch until right when it does finally start.

After just replacing the spark plugs and cleaning the MAF (which just had some film on the air inlet side of the wire), the car made a horrible noise when attempting to start (it will be in the video). I believe a lot of gasoline had leaked from the fuel line when I was trying to remove the pressure regulator so maybe I can attribute it to that. I rechecked the ft lb of torque on the spark plugs, cleared the DTC from the ODB2 and attempted to start again. You will see the sluggish start, and then for the first time a very weak initial idle almost stalling. I gave it some gas and it came to life and idles perfectly again. No DTC popped up but I'm sure it will return.

I am going to let the engine get back to ambient temp and start it again and then post the video.

Thanks again

chitownV · Post by **chitownV** » 26 Aug 2020, 15:00

Sounds good. Looking forward to the video.

Also add to "how" you start the car. Put the key in the 2nd position and wait 5 seconds or more. If there is a fuel flow issue due to the fuel pump, this will give it a chance to pressurize the lines before starting. If that helps, then it might be a fuel pump.

I know it mays sound like snake oil, but run a tank of fuel system cleaner. There can be bad gas, sitrred up sediment in a gas station underground tank, etc. that could be affecting fuel flow and may have caused the injectors to go bad in the first place. Cheap enough to try.

miley · Post by **miley** » 26 Aug 2020, 15:12

Gotcha on that! I actually have been allowing the pump to sit on. When I had the pressure gauge I noted that pressure did build when the key was in the pre-start position. I should have already done the fuel system cleaner thanks for the advice! My wife only uses Costco gas - I have heard that this is premium level fuel... Also, I was planning on using Seafoam prior to the next oil change but I can not for the life of me figure out how the darn brake booster line will come apart... it seems different than any pictures or videos I have seen online.

Update. My wife insisted I call our Volvo mechanic shop. They are great people and heard me out entirely. While on the phone they had me do another test - Crank up the car. locate the plastic "cap" or disk on the rear driver side of the top of the engine and then locate the pin hole in the disk. He then has me pull the oil dip stick out and wait for a noise - sure enough I started hearing a air rushing noise from the cap. He then asked me to re-insert the oil dipstick and see if the noise changed. It did. The air rushing began a regular intermittent rushing noise. He asked me to place my finger over the hole and see if it was a vacuum feeling - it was not it was an outward rush of air in each 1 second long whoosh. He said it sometimes will sound like a tea-kettle but mine did not for whatever reason.
He says I probably have a ruptured "oil vapor separator". We talked about whether I would be able to handle the replacement on my own - I decided I don't currently have the tools to tackle the job.

So, I'll take the XC90 into the shop tomorrow. He wants to take a look at the engine himself before ordering the part so it will be Monday at least before that issue is fixed. If there is anything else wrong with it I will be bringing it home to work on, but my school clinicals start tomorrow and I'll be pulling 16 hour days tomorrow through Sunday.

miley · Post by **miley** » 26 Aug 2020, 15:39

Alrighty here I am going over where I am currently at...
vid 1:

Video 1 ends with a very nasty sounding attempt to start. I am guessing it was from air in the fuel line? IDK but I rechecked the tightness of the spark plugs and double check over everything again before recording video 2.
Vid 2:

Then I waited a bit and came back to see if the car would go back to slow starting.

miley · Post by **miley** » 26 Aug 2020, 15:58

I just looked up "oil vapor separator"... Is this the same thing as an oil trap? It looks to be the same part that the shop had me looking at. I found it at 1/10th the price online. I am still going ot take the XC90 in to let him look it over tomorrow, but I think I will be telling him to hold off on replacing it and buy the part myself.

chitownV · Post by **chitownV** » 26 Aug 2020, 16:16

This is well documented so you can do a search on Youtube and Google for the PCV and whistle on the 3.2 engines. If you hear a whistle while running, but it sounds more like air rushing when you remove the oil cap or dipstick, then that is a good indicator it needs replacing. This is another part that should be changed around 100k miles due to the internal rubber diaphram beaking with age & wear.

The part is under crankcase breather section if you are searching the part online. It is a very easy swap and you can find videos that show how to do it. You could save money here in labor.

The first video, the weird noise sounds like the starter dis/engagement. There should be another schrader on the fuel rail. It is on the passenger side and it is covered by a small pastic piece screwed on by a phillips? This is where to relieve pressure by simply depressing the valve before replacing the fuel pressure sensor. I never have connected to this rail, but it might need an adapter, not a typical valve.

miley · Post by **miley** » 30 Aug 2020, 05:02

chitownV wrote: ↑26 Aug 2020, 16:16 This is well documented so you can do a search on Youtube and Google for the PCV and whistle on the 3.2 engines. If you hear a whistle while running, but it sounds more like air rushing when you remove the oil cap or dipstick, then that is a good indicator it needs replacing. This is another part that should be changed around 100k miles due to the internal rubber diaphram beaking with age & wear.

The part is under crankcase breather section if you are searching the part online. It is a very easy swap and you can find videos that show how to do it. You could save money here in labor.

The first video, the weird noise sounds like the starter dis/engagement. There should be another schrader on the fuel rail. It is on the passenger side and it is covered by a small pastic piece screwed on by a phillips? This is where to relieve pressure by simply depressing the valve before replacing the fuel pressure sensor. I never have connected to this rail, but it might need an adapter, not a typical valve.

So, no whistle, but yes most deff air rushing outwards. I ordered the part online for cheap and am waiting on its arrival. I watched a mom and 11 year old replace it on YT, so hopefully I can handle it. (at 1/10th the cost of the shop).

I am replacing the battery in the car as well. Of course I looked up the size without just eyeballing the battery in the back and it said H6... bought an H6... most definitely an H8 battery. So, I am grabbing the correct one today.

Shrader valve does not appear to be anywhere on this darn fuel system, including the rail, outside of the one preceding the fuel filter. I'll show you what I mean when I get to it today.

Post by **oragex** » 30 Aug 2020, 06:40

I wonder if the oil separator would cause the car not to start ?
Is the fuel pressure constant at 60psi while cranking and no start ?
The 3.2 has problems with the alternator around these miles. Not sure if related www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x9cufzCXmo
Do you have a fuel pressure sensor ? You also have a PEM, at 100k miles is a bit early for corrosion but who knows, Chicago winters.. (see comments section) www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryxNLIcxVHM