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PNP switch changeout disaster - HELP please!

Help, Advice and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's P80 platform cars -- Volvo's 1990s "bread and butter" cars -- powered by the ubiquitous and durable Volvo inline 5-cylinder engine.

1992 - 1997 850, including 850 R, 850 T-5R, 850 T-5, 850 GLT
1997 - 2000 S70, S70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70, V70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70-XC
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850_olaf_nz
Posts: 18
Joined: 4 December 2006
Year and Model: 1997 855-T5
Location: New Zealand

PNP switch changeout disaster - HELP please!

Post by 850_olaf_nz »

hi team

I really need your help please. Sorry this is a *long* post - I've included all the detail such that those of you who know the PNP switch changeout can follow what we've done, with an eye to assisting accurately. Please stick with me - I need to fix this thing to get my family away on a christmas holiday. :(

Background
1997 850-T5, 144k km, New Zealand Market model.

"why are we here, olaf - what's your sorry tale?"
I had no reverse lights, and had checked the circuits and bulbs - all working okay if I held the PRNDL stick in the right place. Diagnosed as PNP switch on it's way out (it hadn't got so bad as to deliver the blinking shift arrow yet), so I ordered the part from FCP Groton (along with some other maintenance items) and waited the 12 days for express mail to get the bits down here. not bad approaching xmas, really. I chose the SCAN TECH OEM part, not the genuine Volvo part.

I was pushed for time in the pre-xmas rush, and arranged to have the PNP switch changed - my chosen European independant mechanic kindly offered to fit me in on the friday before xmas, as I was to take the family away on a 2000km trip for the xmas break.

My mechanic fitted the switch, and I got back to collect the car. He'd tested it, and it was all okay.

Attempt 1: Car would not start. All lights up on dashboard, heard fuel pump relay initialise, starter solenoid click. Tried booster battery 'just in case' - no fix. Left the car with him to have another go. I figured it was a bad electrical connection to something that was removed to provide access (eg - AFM).

Attempt 2: Went to collect car on hearing again it was okay. Mechanic noted he'd road tested it, and it seemed to need lots of right-foot to get going. He was concerned he'd found nothing wrong, had removed and reinstalled the switch. I went to leave and this time found the car would start okay, by now I had the dreaded flashing Shift Arrow on the dashboard whenever the car was running. The lights on the Sport/Economy switch were also flashing. I checked the snow switch - it was in the correct (default non-snow) position. The car was very sluggish - it just wasn't right. We checked out the procedure on Bay 13 (I'd had time to locate this between Issue 1 & 2), and found the bit about alignment.

I left the vehicle with him, accepting that we weren't going to get away on holiday on Saturday morning (we had a boat to catch with the car), and went home to explain to my wife that we wouldn't be going on holiday as planned. She's a saint - understanding, but naturally disappointed. The kids are too young to know.

Attempt 3: Went back to the workshop that evening - my mechanic had been ordered back by his SO to give it another crack. He had aligned the switch by eye after reading the Bay 13 procedure - it seemed a little better, but still had the flashing shift light on the dash. Trans seemed to take some time to actually engage after moving the selector.

Attempt 4: A final alignment. Without the Volvo alignment tool, we noted what the purpose of the tool was to do, and used a short engineers ruler and sighted as accurately as possible between the two flats on the tranny selector, then determined if the switch needed to move clockwise or anticlockwise against the 'notch' at the top. Confident we had it in the right place, we tightened up and tested car. I checked the Haynes manual's write-up also - it didn't have much on alignment - did talk about feeling equal play back-and-forth from the PRNDL stick. I felt this and feel we're in the right place. Took the car for a test drive (still have the flashing shift-arrow), and it felt good for a few minutes around the block (engaged quickly enough) - then it went back to back to the very sluggish 'lots-of-right-foot' to get it moving.

I decided to leave it with the workshop. My mechanic has kindly lent me a loaner runnaround vehicle to get around - we're going to have another shot tomorrow (27th). He's bummed out about this - I'm patient, given he's simply fitted the part I supplied and it hasn't worked out - I don't hold my mechanic at fault. So: what are we missing here?

STATUS:
* New OEM PNP switch installed and aligned.
* Flashing Shift Arrow in all PRNDL positions
* Car enters "get me home" mode - appears to select 3rd only after 5 mins running or so.
* Connector is firmly held together with cable-ties and tape - the old boot fell to pieces on removal.

questions
I figure I have the following to address.

Question 1: Is this a faulty part issue with my new PNP switch? I can remove the new PNP and meter it out against the old part to determine function. If the readings are the same (except for an expected intermittant in the reverse position), that proves the electrical aspect of the switch. If it's faulty, I get another from FCP (I'd be tempted to pay the extra 30bucks for the genuine Volvo item), and reinstall the old part in the mean time.

Question 2: Is this now an electrical issue? Eg, poor electrical contact at the pins on the connector block?

Question 3: Is this an internal lubricant issue - do I need to run the switch through it's ranges repeatedly to redistribute lubricant?

Question 4: Is this still an alignment issue?

Question 5: Have I missed anything in the procedure?

Question 6: What would you do?

Thanks in advance for your help and advice. Merry Christmas!

regards

'olaf' - Wellington, New Zealand
1997 855-T5, 182k km, as stock as a stock thing.

ShahinS
Posts: 50
Joined: 10 January 2006
Year and Model: 850 GLT Wagon 1996
Location: West Coast

Post by ShahinS »

Hi There!

Have you followed all the steps from Bay 13? Here is the link:

www.volvospeed.com/Repair/pnpswitch.php
96 850 GLT Wagon

Ozark Lee
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Post by Ozark Lee »

I've held off on "guessing" since my car is a stick and I have no experience with a Volvo automatic.

With that disclaimer, what codes is it posting? If you have the flashing arrow it is setting codes but I don't know if they can be read with a standard scanner. If the codes can be read it would go a long way toward figuring out what the transmission is mad about.

...Lee
'94 850 N/A 5 speed
'96 Platinum Edition Turbo
Previous:
1999 V70XC - Nautic Blue - Totaled while parked.
1999 V70XC - RIP - Wrecked Parts Car.
1998 S70 T5
1996 850 N/A
1989 740 GLT
1986 740 GLT
1972 142 Grand Luxe

phly50
Posts: 17
Joined: 20 August 2003
Year and Model: S70 1998
Location: Toowoomba - Australia

Post by phly50 »

Is this now an electrical issue? Eg, poor electrical contact at the pins on the connector block?

Yes, I would be checking the above for clean contact and even remaking the contacts (if that is possible - I don't know what the connector looks like as I have never replaced the PNP on our S70)

Then if that didn't fix the problem, I would be ordering another switch (genuine Volvo this time). I think it is not an alignment problem, as your fellers over there are pretty 'cluey' with regard to keeping cars on the road and your mechanic would have done enough research by now to get it aligned pretty accurately.

Best of luck, Phil in Toowoomba

850_olaf_nz
Posts: 18
Joined: 4 December 2006
Year and Model: 1997 855-T5
Location: New Zealand

Post by 850_olaf_nz »

@ShahinS: yes, referred to that in "Attempt 2" above, thanks.

@Ozark Lee: I haven't read the codes (don't have an OBDII reader) - I'll get the Mechanic to read 'em tomorrow, great idea.

@phly50: cheers mate, will give it a crack.

Thanks gentlemen for your comments - essentially we'll be working on this together, tomorrow. I guess if the worst comes to the worst, I can restore the original switch (no reverse lights) and await that new Volvo part - assuming once re-installed the car functions as it used to!

'Olaf'
1997 855-T5, 182k km, as stock as a stock thing.

MadeInJapan
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Posts: 13434
Joined: 31 March 2005
Year and Model: '98 S70 T5 '07S40T5
Location: Knoxville, TN American but born in Japan
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Post by MadeInJapan »

Here is a link I got when I did an internal search for the PNP on Volvospeed.com Read all you can here...it might clue you in on something puculiar about your car, the switch you got or the insall/alignment/connection issues.
'98 S70 T5 Emrld Grn Met/Beige Tons of Upgrades Mobil-1
'04 V70 2.5T Red/Taupe Some Upgrades Mobil-1
'07 S40 T5 AWD 6 speed manual! Silver/Black Stage1 Heico & Elevate
'07 S60 2.5T Blue/Taupe- my kid's Volvo

850_olaf_nz
Posts: 18
Joined: 4 December 2006
Year and Model: 1997 855-T5
Location: New Zealand

Post by 850_olaf_nz »

Thanks all for your assistance! MIJ - that comrehensive search was very useful.

Final clear was: codes read and cleared at Volvo dealer. Car drove okay back to my mechanic's workshop. I collected car; okay to start with, then faulted agaain. Ratcheted the PRNDL stick back and forth 20 times (I figured there could be some contact contamination, while it was sitting on the shelf new)... returned to the volvo dealer. They read a 3-1-3 again, and cleared the code.

I drove it cautiously for an hour; didn't fault again. The volvo mechanic suggested it could have been that the OEM part wasn't agreeing with the trans; if I disassembled and cleaned up the old part (the reverse contacts are the only ones that carry current load, so would be blackened) and I cleaned it up and reassembled/reinstalled, it should be okay. I considered this, noted that some insulation would need repair (damaged during removal)... and thought of the changes in state of the repair at that point.

I consulted the Haynes manual and found an interesting point: that after cycling through the codes and clearing each one in turn, on next power-up, the ODB unit will always display the primary code again, which would have to be cleared.

In summary - it was either a code issue due to install error in first instance (bad alignment also); poor internal contacts on PNP switched caused code error (and needed subsequent second reset). Car has now driven for over a week with no issues, functioning reverse lights, and the selector feels better too.

I've even driven through heavy rain, so it appears the connections are clean and weatherproof.

Thanks again for your assistance. Now I need to fix the f*#%ing glovebox - went to put the code into the stereo during the first test drive, and the glovebox latch has died. I am musicless until I hacksaw my way in there. :( Is this my welcome to volvo ownership!? :? At least my replacing the tailgate struts went pretty smoothly, 45 mins including lugging tools and parts up and down from my house to the street.

best regards

'Olaf'
1997 855-T5, 182k km, as stock as a stock thing.

MadeInJapan
MVS Moderator
Posts: 13434
Joined: 31 March 2005
Year and Model: '98 S70 T5 '07S40T5
Location: Knoxville, TN American but born in Japan
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Post by MadeInJapan »

Check this out for your glove box fix:
http://volvospeed.com/vs_forum/index.ph ... opic=41450
'98 S70 T5 Emrld Grn Met/Beige Tons of Upgrades Mobil-1
'04 V70 2.5T Red/Taupe Some Upgrades Mobil-1
'07 S40 T5 AWD 6 speed manual! Silver/Black Stage1 Heico & Elevate
'07 S60 2.5T Blue/Taupe- my kid's Volvo

850_olaf_nz
Posts: 18
Joined: 4 December 2006
Year and Model: 1997 855-T5
Location: New Zealand

Post by 850_olaf_nz »

MIJ - thanks for the link, that's brilliant! I'll follow that exactly. A tap and die set is one of the few tools I lack - now I have a reason to procure one!

This should be converted into a Bay 13 procedure, I reckon. (the slater latch fix, that is)

best regards

'Olaf'
Last edited by 850_olaf_nz on 04 Jan 2007, 22:17, edited 1 time in total.
1997 855-T5, 182k km, as stock as a stock thing.

luketrash
Posts: 421
Joined: 15 October 2006
Year and Model:
Location: Ames, Iowa USA
Been thanked: 2 times

Post by luketrash »

Mine must have already been 'fixed' because it looks like someone cut into it with a saw. But I have no original car to compare to.

My PNP ratcheting fix has been working for over a month now.. I have my fingers crossed!
'94 Gunmetal Gray 855 2.4L 100% stock. This is Volvo #7.

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