1989 240 DL - Absolute No Start Condition

johnny volvo · Post by **johnny volvo** » 05 Nov 2009, 00:51

I have a trusty old 1989 240DL. In June, I replaced: Battery, alternator, fuel pump relay, ignition coil and lead, engine control module (the one on the fender wall behind the battery.) The car, which gets light use, started and ran fine. This past week, I suddenly had a starting issue. When the key was turned all the way, the idiot lights would illuminate, but nothing happened - no crank, no clicks, no sound at all. When I turned off the key, I could hear the fuel pump relay click, but that was all.

I hooked up my Start-It, and gave it a quick jump and it roared to life. It ran fine for the rest of the day. It sat for about two days. When I went to start it again, the same thing occurred. This happened a total of three times. Once, it initially did the same thing, but then, when I turned the key again, it started up.

Two or three days ago, I went out and the battery seemed completely drained. Nothing happened, not even with the Start-It. I took the battery back to the parts store. They tested and charged it and it was fine. But, the car will not start. Again, no sound whatsoever.

Are there fuses in the ignition circuit? (The fuses in the fuse box are all good.) This seems to me to be an electrical issue. Given that it came on suddenly, and then was intermittent, I am betting a fusable link or something similar. I don't have the test equipment to check, but it did seem as if the battery was drained. (I turned on the radio and then tried to start the car and the radio went completely dead.)

I'm unemployed, so money is a big issue here. Any ideas on where to start looking for the problem?

Thanks

Post by **billofdurham** » 05 Nov 2009, 11:45

There are no fuses in the ignition circuit and I can't find any fusible links.

Have you checked the output from the ignition switch? The attachment tells you how to do this. It is the same for your car as the 740.

740 Starter Motor Trouble Shooting.pdf: (121.85 KiB) Downloaded 647 times

If it is an automatic another thing to check is the inhibitor switch as it is between the ignition switch and the starter motor. On the 240 it is adjustable:

240 inhibitor switch.pdf: (107.94 KiB) Downloaded 757 times

Bill.

johnny volvo · Post by **johnny volvo** » 06 Nov 2009, 10:41

Bill, thanks so much for the reply and the helpful diagrams and information. As I went about checking the system, the true nature of the problem is becoming clearer and I need some more guidance.

As mention, the battery and alternator (internal voltage regulator) are about four months old. I had the battery tested and charged. Assuming that I can trust the word of the counter guy, the battery is good and was fully charged. I hooked up that battery and tried to start the car, but all I got were the idiot lights. I then disconnected the positive side of the battery and called it a night. The battery, with the positive side disconnected, sat for about 20 hours. When I went to work on it, the battery lit my test light, so there was juice. I reconnected the cable, tried to start the car, with the same lights-but-no-crank results. I hooked up my Start-It, but it changed nothing. I disconnected both cables and went inside to read my manual. About an hour later, I went to try again, hooked up the battery, tried to start it and got nothing, not even lights. I used my test light on the battery and got nothing. It was completely discharged.

My suspicion is that something in the circuit is massively drawing down the battery. Killing it dead. But, this is where my knowledge is slight. So, the question is: Can the voltage regulator be killing the battery, or is there some other component in the starting/charging system that could draw down a battery that quickly?

Keep in mind, the battery was only completely connected (both negative and positive) for 10 - 15 minutes after being fully charged. The negative only connection was 20 hours longer.

It seems that the faulty component not only drains the battery, but interferes with the ignition process as well. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. But, I am limited in my test equipment to a continuity tester. No voltmeter or ammeter. And money is a severe issue, or I would have turned this over to someone with diagnostics.

Thanks!

johnny volvo · Post by **johnny volvo** » 06 Nov 2009, 14:13

Here's a Follow-up Question to the Follow-up Question:

I was thinking of having a friend come over and jump my battery, but I'm concerned that, if my battery is being depleted, his will be too. Is this a bad idea?

Also, is there a way to test the voltage regulator using only a continuity test light?

I'm really trying to nail down the offending component as quickly and a cheaply as possible.

Thanks, again!

Post by **billofdurham** » 06 Nov 2009, 15:41

With one or both of the leads disconnected from the battery there is no way that any piece of equipment can drain the battery. I would suspect that you have at least one dead cell in the battery.

I appreciate your need to do this cheaply but wonder if any of your friends or neighbours have a voltmeter or multimeter that you can borrow. The test light is not an accurate check on the state of charge of the battery. A voltmeter would tell you immediately if the battery is at fault. A fully charged battery should show about 12.7 volts at rest. Add a load to that and it could drop to 11.9 volts. Still enough power to start the engine. At 50% of full charge the battery should read 12.1 volts. When it drops to less than 11.6 the battery is at 0% efficiency.

With a dead cell in the battery you could get a reading as low as 8.5 volts. This was what my new battery read after 3 months of use. When we checked it we found one cell was dead and another was dying. However, switching on the ignition lit up all the dash lights but there was no way it would start the engine. It wouldn't even start with a high power jump start unit. A new battery, under warranty, got it going.

I appreciate you took the battery back to the shop and were told it was OK. How did they test it? A voltmeter is only the start. The specific gravity of the 'water' gives an accurate indication of each cell.

You mention your Start-It. Is this a rechargeable jump start unit? If it is then you will have no more joy with a friend using jump leads from his battery as the jump start unit provides a higher amperage kick than jump leads ever will.

Bill.

johnny volvo · Post by **johnny volvo** » 06 Nov 2009, 20:41

Bill, I sure appreciate your knowledge and wisdom on this. I had thought the same thing about the battery. I couldn't understand how it would drain through the negative cable alone.

My question is, though, if the battery had some juice in it, why wouldn't the engine turn slowly? There is absolutely no crank at all. I still suspect I could have a component that is interrupting the circuit and draining the battery. Can you think of anything that could do this? Would a bad cell in that battery prevent it from turning even with a full charge on it?

The store tested the battery on a machine that is supposed to give it a paper report showing a defect. My assumption is that it would be able to diagnose a bad cell, but who knows?

The other thing that interested me in your post is that, if I have someone's car jumping mine, and the problem is a dead cell in the battery, wouldn't their battery take the place of mine, or would that dead cell prevent the proper operation?

Can you think of any component that would drain the battery and interrupt the circuit?

Thanks.

drsugg · Post by **drsugg** » 06 Nov 2009, 21:21

Check the ground connection between the block,body and battery.The connection on the block is a common issue. It is a possible cause of no cranking. Batt drain? I would try a different battery. Those bench-top testers are not always right. I would also check the ground connection on the alt for good measure.

johnny volvo · Post by **johnny volvo** » 06 Nov 2009, 21:47

BTW, yes, the "Start-It" is Black and Decker's jump-start device. It's been really good to me, but this latest problem has it licked.

johnny volvo · Post by **johnny volvo** » 06 Nov 2009, 21:50

drsugg - I'll certainly check the connections again, although they seemed to be fine.

Thanks for the input!

Post by **billofdurham** » 07 Nov 2009, 11:31

Would a bad cell in that battery prevent it from turning even with a full charge on it?

If there is a dead cell in the battery it will not have a full charge as it requires all cells to be good for that. There may be enough voltage to light up a test light or even all the dash lights but it would not be enough to turn the engine over. As I said earlier I have just gone through this with a three month old battery.

In theory your friend's battery would be taking over from yours on jump leads but if your battery is very low on charge there won't be sufficient amps from his to kick your engine into life. A typical jump start unit, which hooks onto the battery without another car, will be rated between 300 and 500 amps which could not be achieved running battery to battery.

Can you think of any component that would drain the battery and interrupt the circuit?

There are lots of components that would drain the battery over a period of time if they were faulty. However, they could never do it with the battery leads disconnected. A dead cell would cause the battery to drop below its useful voltage even with the leads off.

Bill.