purchasing advice: 1998 or 2001 v70 (more details inside)?

BerniniCaCO3 · Post by **BerniniCaCO3** » 10 Feb 2010, 21:24

Hi!

I'm a college student, looking for a wagon as something that can at least haul *something* (even chopped up sheets of plywood rarely fit into any sedan) with better mpg than a pickup or suv.

I've been looking at volvos for quality, taurus/sable because they don't seem too bad either, and tend to be cheaper.

Here is my imminent good deal, and I want your advice on it for tomorrow morning if possible!

2001 Volvo XC, 150,000 miles, $2900. Recently checked out (not official state inspection), needs mass air flow sensor (I can install myself...? $130 part) to pass inspection. Claims good tires, strong engine/transmission, changed oil every 3k miles since he bought it in 2003; did $7000 in repairs since purchase but I'd have to look over the records, which he's saved, to list exactly what.. Wanted 3800 and kbb is $5600; $2900 is the buy-it-tomorrow price....

So let me know!!!

What's the scoop with the 2001 tranny issues I just spotted in the other forum, btw?

1998 Volvo XC, 106,000 miles, $2500. The catch-- needs engine. Engine included-- 85k mile engine from second car, both towed to house included in price. Also needs new tires, and brake pads ($600?).
Bought Chilton manual, considering doing work myself if I go with it. Advantage in that includes other salvaged electronic components from 2nd parts car, disadvantage that I'll be doing work I'm not qualified for, will need to rent a garage for a weekend and then dispose of the parts car, and hope and pray that just lifting out the engine is the only thing it needs (I can't drive it yet, to find out, until the engine is installed!)
kbb is $4800
Mechanic bought both cars as a quickie project, never got around to (that's his story), won't swear that there's nothing else wrong, as he didn't put it up on a lift and look at all of it; but thinks it's just the engine, brake pads, tires, oh, and one servo motor for the back seat adjust. So he's done some due diligence but not total.

1997 Mercury Sable wagon, 93,000 miles, $1800. Best deal...? Claims mechanic-owned, regular maintenance. Had new brake pads and rotors turned 5k miles ago. Lower mileage, but 4 yrs older, than the volvo at top. $1200 cheaper.

Which seems the better value?
As priority, I need to rule in or rule out the first 2001 volvo tomorrow if possible! If you say yes; then pics tomorrow night

If you say the engine-swap second volvo, then pics in the rented garage Saturday night, hahaha....
Taurus would also be Saturday.
My biggest fear is for reliability above all else. I simply don't have the money for any major or even moderate repair. The "$7000 in repairs" for the first volvo and lengthier records are encouraging, and at least he knows it's just the mass air flow sensor. At those prices, $2000-$3000, a new engine or transmission might as well be a 2nd car; or $2000 in a bunch of lesser repairs for that matter.
I avoided entirely the cars where "my brother asked me to sell it for him, it's as-is, come on over and check it out as you like..." as I confess, I wouldn't know what to look for in the first hour, until it was driving oddly a month later and it was too late.

thanks for the advice!!!
-Bernard

BerniniCaCO3 · Post by **BerniniCaCO3** » 10 Feb 2010, 21:50

Oh, the 1998 XC that needs the engine, did have the battery and alternator replaced 6months ago; also the sway bar links, front struts, motor mounts, torque mount, and pinion seal maybe 20k miles ago.

But those are all somewhat trivial I think.

Post by **kcodyjr** » 10 Feb 2010, 22:42

As attractive as it looks, don't touch the XC. Aside from the tranny, there's the electronic stalling system (I mean, electronic throttle system), the AWD rear driveline issues, and even in perfect working order AWDs eat tires.

The Sable looks the next most attractive, but don't drive it too hard or for too long. If it has the 3.8 and hasn't had a head gasket, don't touch it. I recently inherited a short-lived 93 sable sedan at 165K that had essentially been totally rebuilt already. It died in a crash and performed its duty (saving my wife's life) with distinction and perhaps a degree of valor. If you don't mind it having a typically short Ford life, it's a decent set of wheels.

The 1998 is the biggest wildcard but also potentially the biggest payoff. The golden years of the 850 platform were from 1996-1998 for many reasons; not that they're perfect but they're arguably less of a pain in the butt than any Volvo 1999 or later.

Best of luck,
- Kevin

Post by **kcodyjr** » 10 Feb 2010, 23:18

Oh, misread, 1998 is also an XC. Hmm. I'd consider it if I was dropping a real FWD driveline into it. Some people simply pull the shaft leading to the rear, but something about that just doesn't sit right with me.

I'd keep your eyes peeled for a front wheel drive V70 or 850 wagon, they can be had for $1000-$3000 depending how many toys you want and existing problems you're willing to deal with.

Non-turbo if your main concern is maintenance costs, turbo preferably 1997 or 1998 GLT models if the main concern is how much heavy stuff you can pack into it.

I once hauled maybe 1000lbs of computers in the back of my 96 NA wagon, and although roadholding wasn't an issue, that was mainly because it couldn't go fast enough to get into trouble.

- Kevin

Post by **matthew1** » 10 Feb 2010, 23:36

No good ever came of buying a car "in the next few days, or else..."

The people with the best cars generally had it in the family, knew the prior owner, or waited patiently until "The" Volvo came by. Generally, not always.

Here's some help on how to buy a used Volvo:

I'm going to move this to the 850, S70, V70, XC70 up to year 2000 section so it'll get seen a bit more.

Post by **kcodyjr** » 11 Feb 2010, 00:02

Matthew speaks sage words of wisdom, as usual.

I burned my eyeballs up looking at about 200 ads on ebay and craigslist before finding one that was both worthy of purchase, and close enough to go and test drive.

Took me about a week, but I got lucky finding one that quickly, plus I was willing to deal with a few surprises and a few minor flaws. Generally you want to bring them to a mechanic you know and trust and get it on a lift before making a decision, but as I said, I've driven many a s**tbox and know what most faults feel like.

A proper search for a used car is a two phase process: finding candidates, and eliminating the bad ones. That includes vetting the ads themselves, good pictures, good details, etc. If you find one you like, set it aside and look at a few more. Try to resist falling in love with it until -after- you own it.

Besides my good sedan, I have a 1996 base model wagon that's in dire straits, but I'm not letting it go because I know its entire history. It was the vehicle Mom transported me in when my own car was crashed or confiscated for bad behavior, so I have a love-hate relationship with it to say the least. It's also the best kind of used car to own when you have to depend on it: a car you know well and have no wish to be caught dead in.

- Kevin

Post by **Glencoeteen** » 11 Feb 2010, 00:18

There are some things i would have to Disagree with you on as being an owner of a 98XC and having it since 00 and putting 112k on it since buying it i have had 122k of trouble free miles, it being a 98 its the last year for the Cable operated throttle so its not equipped with the ETM that is Prone to failure , mine has never had uneven tire wear. yes being a awd its mandatory to get the tires rotated ever 5k to ensure it doesn't cause damage to the awd system if you neglect the rotations then you will have uneven tread and there for different amount of resistance all around which will cause more strain and wear on the Drive Train and for an AWD that can be a disaster in some cases. and fluid service of the Bevel Gear at least ever 60k will insure its longevity.

kcodyjr wrote:Matthew speaks sage words of wisdom, as usual.

I burned my eyeballs up looking at about 200 ads on ebay and craigslist before finding one that was both worthy of purchase, and close enough to go and test drive.

Took me about a week, but I got lucky finding one that quickly, plus I was willing to deal with a few surprises and a few minor flaws. Generally you want to bring them to a mechanic you know and trust and get it on a lift before making a decision, but as I said, I've driven many a s**tbox and know what most faults feel like.

A proper search for a used car is a two phase process: finding candidates, and eliminating the bad ones. That includes vetting the ads themselves, good pictures, good details, etc. If you find one you like, set it aside and look at a few more. Try to resist falling in love with it until -after- you own it.

Besides my good sedan, I have a 1996 base model wagon that's in dire straits, but I'm not letting it go because I know its entire history. It was the vehicle Mom transported me in when my own car was crashed or confiscated for bad behavior, so I have a love-hate relationship with it to say the least. It's also the best kind of used car to own when you have to depend on it: a car you know well and have no wish to be caught dead in.

- Kevin

Post by **kcodyjr** » 11 Feb 2010, 00:22

I think you quoted the wrong post, I was talking about the XC earlier, but you raise a good point.

If the car has meticulously been kept to the manufacturer maintenance schedule, and I do mean down to the last flipping detail, then many of those things don't happen. That's a good tip about the tire rotations.

That said, my Volvo mechanic, dealer trained working at an independent shop, tells me horror stories all the time. Most of the time they don't get kept up so faithfully.

I'd definitely agree that if you're going to own one, you want the 98.

- Kevin

Post by **Glencoeteen** » 11 Feb 2010, 00:38

my mistake on quoting the wrong reply. I am not dead on when it comes to maintenance but i try not to have the mind set of " i'll get to it tomorrow" having the Majority of my family in the Automotive Field I have heard the horror stories and the Fast amount of complaints from people about their volvos but if you stop and ask them and if they are honest you will find out that they are the ones who don't maintain their cars. they are the ones who think Getting a basic oil change at jiffy lube is like giving their car a special gift. and treat it like a Hyundai drive it till it drops from neglect then scream about it, but in all honesty if you take care of your car, it tends to take care of you at least to me. and my XC is not just a paved road explorer it loves a good snow or mud covered road!

Post by **kcodyjr** » 11 Feb 2010, 00:54

I have no doubt the XC is just as happy in the bush as on the road. I've read the reviews and wanted one. Still do. My Volvo guy warned me off.

I think the real problem is that the kind of owner you describe - more politely than I would have, by the way - is the overwhelming majority.

The one the OP describes needs an engine swap, so that doesn't bode well for having been taken care of. Even less information about the donor car, and I think everyone's in agreement that the 99+ ETS is to be avoided.

In fairness to Glencoeteen, I'll concede the point - I'd consider a 98 XC, if and only if I saw a full history of maintenance paperwork and liked what I saw. In fairness to my Volvo guy, you are the first person I've heard reporting satisfactory result on the model.

- Kevin