Transmission fluid color

[E_S]

Car is a '99 V70 with 4-speed automatic. When I got my car, the transmission fluid was dark red. I flushed it according to the factory manual and everything was fine. Today I was cleaning the engine bay and decided to take a look at the transmission dipstick too. Wiped off onto a white paper, the fluid appeared kinda light gray, clear (not water contaminated) with a slight red. Smell is normal (like new ATF), no particles to be felt and the transmission works just fine.

Why has the color changed from pink-red to light gray in just 2k miles? I have two ideas:
1. The old fluid was old and bad, and the cleaning action of the new fluid together with the AW50-42's lack of a regular oil filter discolored the fluid in only a few hundred miles.
2. My transmission is on its way out.

Any other ideas? Should I leave it, or should I do another flush and see if the fluid then stays light red/pink?

[Ozark Lee]

Try a few more drain and fills. When the fluid is drained via the drain plug about 50% of the total capacity is still in the transmission. By doing successive drain and fills you can cut the percentage of the old stuff in the mix down to negligible levels. Just be consistent on the brand and type of fluid you are using - don't mix and match between Dexron and Type F.

...Lee

[MoVolvos]

Car is a '99 V70 with 4-speed automatic. When I got my car, the transmission fluid was dark red. I flushed it according to the factory manual and everything was fine...

When you removed the plug the first time were there a large quantity of dark slurry on the magnet drain plug?
When you say flush according to manual do you mean drain and fill?
Lastly, dark red usually means clean fluid where as brown is dirty contrasting on a paper towel, which is it dark red clean or brown dirty?

Blessings,

BKM
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[fazool]

Essentially, two things will cause oil to discolor: contamination and temperature.

Contamination comes from a few basic places:

The most obvious are metal particulates/dust from normal metal-on-metal wear, rubber particulate from seals and o-rings degrading and external contamination. This last one is common in engines where combustion, fuel, carbon, etc all get into the oil. This is the biggest source of oil contamination. With a sealed automatic transmission, external contamination can be almost ruled out.

The exception to this is the cooling system: a tiny leak in your transmission cooling lines or heat exchanger could cause coolant to get into the transmission fluid. You might also see discoloration of your coolant as the leak direction will depend on the pressure difference between the fluids. If your car is not equipped with a transmission cooler then this doesn't count.

So contamination will almost exclusively come from the transmissions internal parts - metal and rubber. If you are getting excessive particulate, then its the sign of some internal mechanical problem - material is coming apart too fast.


The other source is from excessive heat. Newer Volvo transmissions have a heat & hour counter that adds up how long the oil is how overheated. From this is determines when it has to be serviced.

Excessive heat can come from overworking the transmission, worn parts which rub too much causing localized high heat, breakdown in lubrication which feeds back in to the problem.

Once these problems start, they are like the "China Syndrome" where a nuclear meltdown or "runaway" happens and feeds itself. Once the oil gets damaged from heat, it loses lubricating properties. Once the metal wears too much it contains abrasive particles and causes more wear. Once it starts, it makes itself worse exponentially over time. It will get worse, faster.

Particulate contamination in oil is hard to see without a microscope. Generally speaking, particles that are sub-microscopic are "normal" and won't cause direct abrasion but they WILL degrade the oil. Particles that can be seen with a normal microscope are capable of causing direct damage.

Rubber particles will degrade, breakdown more and pseudo-dissolve and be less obvious to see.

Water contaminated oil will NOT be clear - it will be milky translucent because it is an emulsion.

It is very important to understand HOW you flushed the transmission fluid. Did you simply passively drain the fluid and refill it? Did you truly power flush it ? etc. This is important. If you truly flushed the system you might have dislodged years of particulate sediment.

If the oil smells "normal" it is possible that heat is not a factor. Usually burnt oil has a telltale scent. The "gray" color makes me suspicious of metallic dust. The "flush" comment makes me suspicious of sedimentary residue.

The best thing you can possibly due right now is an emergency drain and fill. Then drive for 50-100 miles and do another. Then drive for 50-100 miles and check the fluid. Then drive normally, checking the fluid visually, every couple hundred miles.


Post this information:

1) describe exactly HOW you did a flush
2) does you car have a tranny cooler?
3) do you tow or drive in hilly areas?

[rspi]

When I got this wagon it had a bad tranny. It would not shift into reverse without 1st or 2nd also going into gear at the same time. The fluid was like nasty pond water, brown dirty and no sign of red more like black. So I milked it home and had it replaced with a used tranny about 10,000 miles ago.

About 2 weeks ago I drained the fluid and refilled it 3 times, driving around 50 and 100 miles between changed. The first drain I the fluid was dark and had some metalic looking swirls in it. The plug was also covered with metalic material. There was nothing on the bolt the 2nd and 3rd changes but the fluid still wasn't red. I have driven about 3,000 miles since then and the tranny is shifting smooth. My plan is to do a tanny drain and refill every 10,000 miles. When the fluid stays read between the changes I plan to do drains every 25,000 miles for the life of the tranny.

I guess I say all that to ask if you guys think my tranny will last any amount of time? I was told that transmissions have felt sheet material between the gears that wear out and cause gears to stick and such. I'm thinking that I have one or more that have worn, hopefully I am doing what can stop the wear and keep my tranny going. I do have another tranny in storage, hopefully I wont have to use it.

[MoVolvos]

It is really not possible to predict however it would be best to do a DYI flush instead of the drain and fill. Drain and fill only count the % of old fluid mixed with new. Let say you have 6 oz of metal shaving in one transmission in another 2 oz of metal shaving. The percentage of old to new fluid would be the same for both tranny's if you do the same drain and fill but the % of metal shaving would not. I would never do a D/F as it never made sense to me. Depending how much (unknown) stuff was in it when you first purchased it the amount of stuff in there may still be not suitable, acceptable to the health of the transmission and in the worst case scenario still damaging it. Swepco provides an oil analysis program with their motor oil and transmission fluid at a very, very reasonable rate if you desire to have it done so you can know what is in it .

Blessings,

BKM
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(EDIT) Use 20W. It has dramatically improved trouble to bad running transmissions and saved a couple of others.

[rspi]

Well, the theory is, a flush may shock the tranny and cause a fast failure. Drain and refills are a milder way to replace the fluid and may avoid a fast failure. The way I figured it is as follows:

1st drain 50/50
2nd drain 75/25
3rd drain 87.5/12.5

So, at the end of the process you have 87.5% fresh fluid. Not sure if that will help the process but I hear of more failures among cars that have the flush instead of the drain and refills

[MoVolvos]

Well, the theory is, a flush may shock the tranny and cause a fast failure. Drain and refills are a milder way to replace the fluid and may avoid a fast failure. The way I figured it is as follows:

1st drain 50/50
2nd drain 75/25
3rd drain 87.5/12.5

So, at the end of the process you have 87.5% fresh fluid. Not sure if that will help the process but I hear of more failures among cars that have the flush instead of the drain and refills

Have been doing DYI Flush for around a dozen years on a variety (10 vehicles) of size and makes in differing stages of it usefulness. From trans that have stopped with silver slurry to good running units. Just did 3 cars in recent mouths and one car was not with Swepco and none of the cars had trouble. I will look for some technical articles and report back as the Shocking a Transmission may be a term used by some people rather than a real phenomenon that actually occurs and even then it must be explained. Again, percentage of new fluid does not determine quality of fluid. It is dependent totally on what was in it in the first place before the drain and fill!

Blessings,

BKM
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[fazool]

The theory is (I think) this:

The transmission isn't shocked per se. Rather, there is a drastic detrimental change. In the case of n ol transmission, any metallic particulate will circulate in tiny non-damaging amounts and settle in small cavities and no-flow crevasses and the bottom of the pan. Bit by bit that amount is never enough as it passes through the system. For example a few grains (crushed into powder) a day wouldn't hurt anything. Eventually it will settle down and "sink" . When you flush, you blast all that loose at once and it all cirulates at once, leaving a lot behind. After 10 years you have a collection of metal dust all mixed in at once.

Also, the power of the flush may dislodge aged seals and gaskets.

[MoVolvos]

The theory is (I think) this:

The transmission isn't shocked per se. Rather, there is a drastic detrimental change. In the case of n ol transmission, any metallic particulate will circulate in tiny non-damaging amounts and settle in small cavities and no-flow crevasses and the bottom of the pan. Bit by bit that amount is never enough as it passes through the system. For example a few grains (crushed into powder) a day wouldn't hurt anything. Eventually it will settle down and "sink" . When you flush, you blast all that loose at once and it all cirulates at once, leaving a lot behind. After 10 years you have a collection of metal dust all mixed in at once.

Also, the power of the flush may dislodge aged seals and gaskets.

Perhaps there is a misunderstanding and confusion of the DYI Flush! There is no drastic detrimental change as the systems flow rate never changes. The only thing one can technically say is that 4 quarts vs 8 - 10 quarts of new fluid will cause the drastic detrimental change by loosing and mixing all the collection of metal dust then create that shock or drastic detrimental change which is absolutely not possible. If you look at the two videos the line is broken and no exterior Power Is Introduced to cause and create that shock or drastic detrimental change.

There is no power added to the flush!


S70 with Green Clip instead of Metal Clamp


One Note and that is most if not all Flush Machines use the transmissions own pump to circulate the fluid into the machines while the clean fluid is circulated in. It is a call a flush because everything is removed.

http://www.gadgetonline.com/TransFlush.htm


The dangers of flush machines - Bob the Oil Guy (Please Read the Entire Page)
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub ... er=1529635

Excerpt: The only ones I've seen are simple fluid exchange machines that allow the transmission's own pump to fill one reservoir from the cooler line, and that causes a diaphragm to move pushing new fluid through the cooler return line back to the transmission...

Excerpt: I have worked in shops that have used these fluid exchange machines on literally thousands of cars WITH NO ADVERSE EFFECT, INCLUDING HUNDREDS OF HIGH MILEAGE ONES WITH PUTRID FLUID.

Blessings,

BKM
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