Transmission fluid color

[fazool]

You make sound points and I don't disagree. I'm just perpetuating the theory of how a flush could result in some harm. I was referring to the power flush machines. I've done a lot of drain/replace/fills in my days but honestly haven't ever used a formal "flush" or a power flush. So my words are purely theoretical and not based on practical experience.

[JDS60R]

My 28 yrs of experience here does support Fazools finding.

The new fluid does help break free some contaminants in the transmission. I have been doing full flushes (under power of the internal trans pump)for years and never believed in the sudden failure concern. Then it happened in my shop- twice. The trans not having a paper filter allows much of the metal slag etc to circulate through the system. The magnets are undersized or under powered to capture the slag in the suggested ,filled for life concept. When new fluid with fresh detergent in it enters the unit it starts to clean up the unit. Unfortunately, in badly maintained units,it can have slag ,residue etc that gets released. In the last case a piece of metal that broke off a gear previously was sent to the bearings in the differential. The unit was pulled and rebuilt as needed. In well maintained units we have never seen a failure during a full flush.

In regards to Swepco transmission fluid, I have a concern. I called them in TX and spoke to the head of the tech dept as a MVS poster related the great success he has had with the product.
Swepco does not recommend using it in a Dex 3 transmission. He explained it could work but Swepco is focused on heavy machinery and the Dex2 requirement is where they are focused. I have not heard more than a few issues with the product so I would assume it to be of very high quality. I am very concerned with them not publishing wear data as well. I referred tech to the documents published here and was reminded that Dex 3 applications are not what the product is rated for and should not be used. He did advise that their motor oil would work and is a great product. I may be trying the oil but not the trans fluid.

[MoVolvos]

My Swepo rep is two generation in selling their products and in their hay day Chevron Refinery would buy various Swepco products at a rate of $7,000 per month. When I was in Food Manufacturing the same Rep sold the Stainless Steel guys their cutting oil as no other oil preserved bits like Swepco. It was a small world when I found this relationship. That being said whenever I called Swepco with a difficult question they referred me to my Rep and said he had more knowledge in the use of Swepco Products in the field and always ask him first (not their waterproofing material).

To be realistic JDR60S in 28 years you've only seen 2 problems and you knew the cause was from damage after the fact and that statically can not support your support for Fazzols findings. The one had a damaged part and another slag. I have flushed silver transmission fluids from none filter transmissions large and small and unless there are parts in it damage just was not a problem. The links to my previous post of those who service transmissions day in and day out over the long haul also supports your 28 years of experience of 2 failures in 28 years and those were sooner or later to fail transmissions and can not support rspi "but I hear of more failures among cars that have the flush instead of the drain and refills" nor fazools shock and awe theory with no disrespect to everyones massive amount of Volvo knowledge compared to mine.

As for Mercon II and Mercon III: "Nobody has made Dex-II for many years. No one is making official Dex-III any more, 'cuz GM no longer licenses it."
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub ... er=1584699

As for Swepco 714 20W it is a Multi-Service oil like the Amsoil and others which even Ford has now as they do not carry the Dex III from my understanding.

I know Independent Volvo carries and uses a large variety of Swepco Products.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/independent-vol ... lnut-creek

Finally, as in my previous post changing 4 quarts vs 8 quarts and causing a Shock and Drastic Detrimental Change besides in 28 years of your experience and seeing only 2 failures is like a doctor who encounters two patients with very, very, very, very, very rare diseases that will kill sooner or later regardless what you do in the maintenance or care of the patient or car. 4 qt vs 8 qt will not do that.

Blessings,

BKM
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[fazool]

So, my background....well some of my background....was engineering design in the hydraulics industry. I used to design hydraulic systems, including automotive hydraulics. So, most of my opinion comes from a combination of engineering, hydraulics experience and just plain wrenching on cars. I have no expertise in transmissions or such.

My theory is if tranny fluid is good for the tranny and adding nice fresh clean tranny fluid is very good. So, its not the addition of new stuff I dont think. I suppose the new detergents and such could clean up old spooge but I think, for the most part new fluid = good.

I think its the technique of removing the old fluid that is of consequence. I suppose there are four ways to do this:

0) wait a long time and just let nature takes its course. Eventually almost-invisible leaks will remove a little bit and you can add a half quart after five or ten years. This method of "removal" is the safest but the slowest.

1) drain some using just gravity and a convenient port. This won't remove it all but will remove a measurable volume. This method is faster but still pretty safe.

2) drain using self-power, by letting the transmission pump its own fluid out. This is faster still. The pressures are no greater than normal operating pressures but you do cause the system to run with reduced fluid, additional air in the system (cavitation, entrained air etc etc). This is faster yet, but starts to create a possibility for some "danger".

3) power flush the system using an external power supply or pump to push fluid through the system. This is the fastest and most thorough but, also the most "dangerous" as it introduces external pressures and higher flow rates, etc.

I numbered them 0-3 instead of 1-4 to correspond to how much you put into the removal. So the question is: where are you on the scale?

Volvo recommends we all be at 0
JDS60R sounds like he is at 2
BMKL98 might be a 3

Its not a right or wrong....its just a scale....what do you practice and why.

Me....I'm about a 1 or 2, depending on the condition

[MoVolvos]

Hi Fazool,

Thank you for the background info I loved Physics (Fluid Dynamics) but Math was poor. I would go with 3. It is the most normal in terms how the car functions and if you have 4 quarts in the case you can drain and fill the entire 4 quarts the first time and fill with all clean fluids. You then pump out 3 only and fill with 3 more so there is no cavitation at the pump. Regardless of the condition of the fluid if the transmission is still functioning even roughly you should be fine.

The majority of my College studies were in HVAC and Electronics even though I did not Degree in either. The detergent factor in the new fluid is not like that of a Carb or Brake Cleaner to dislodge so much stuff that it would hurt a transmission and from my readings close to 100% of the time. If the transmission is so gunked up in the first place it may well be over the hill sooner or later but I have flush those and brought them back to life as Swepco's mineral (not Additive) package is so much more superior to anything I have tried and seeing in use in Dodge, Odyssey and Mazda problematic trannies and large Allison's makes a believer out of me besides their engine oils.

Blessings,
BKM
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[rspi]

So BKM98, what is in your tranny?

I guess, would assume, could not imagine why not, my car had all new clean fluid in it when the tranny was installed 10,000 miles ago. 8,500 miles later it was pretty dirty. I have a sample of each drain fill in a bottle, don't know why, I just kept some.

I have purchased some cheap DEX III fluid from Wal-Mart. I'm thinking about putting it in my motor since the stuff last so long in a tranny. May help my motor make it to 500,000 miles if changed once every 50,000.

[MoVolvos]

Just worked on 4 trannies in the last month or so.

1) 2000 Honda Odyssey (Friend's) cleaned out 2 Solenoid's and Swepco Flush the transmission runs good now. CEL with very rough 2 to 1 kick down. Started a year ago but now CEL light with codes. Around 175K OE Tranny. Friend found website and I did the work on his car. Swepco 15-40W 306 Engine oil. Car is quite silent and smooth. Feels stronger and glides.
http://dvpatel.homelinux.com/herrhaus/V ... on_Fix.pdf

2) 1998 S70 T5 (Mine) Swepco Flush. Purchased with 231K brown tranny fluid with hint of silveriness. Runs much smoother. Chevron engine oil with Swepco 502 as flush oil for 2 ~ 300 miles. The engine oil was BLACK and almost gooey when cold. Swepco 15-40W 306. Less smoke for one block at start up when temp is low and almost none now as the weather has warmed.

3) 2002 Honda Odyssey (Friend's) about 225K OE Tranny. Rough to jointing kick down 4 to 3 when hot. Friend bought Honda OE Fluid through Amazon before he knew I worked on the 2000 Odyssey so Flushed with Honda Transmission and problem gone. Waiting for hotter weather and if problem is gone leave alone and Flush again later on. If problems comes back then Swepco Flush. Process of elimination as to what is causing problem.

4) 2001 Honda Odyssey (Friend's)- Transmission replaced sometime back and fluid is clean. Had only 4 quarts of Swepco Tranny Fluid left so Drain and Filled ONLY . Chevron Motor oil plus Swepco 502 conditioner and the car really run strong and smooth. Will Swepco 15-40W at next oil change.

Miracle HLA cure - Swepco 502?
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=258671
Swepco 502
http://www.swepcousa.com/lubesite/lubes ... _502SB.pdf

BTW did lots of research on oil filters after buying Volvo in January and had been a Fram Filter guy since 1980 but now it is WIX. O'Reilly's does not keep it on the store shelf but in the back and supplies them to the local repair shops. Got mine at the Local Mom and Pop Auto Supply and then saw it at O'Reilly's.

Blessings,

BKM
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[jimmy57]

The fluid flush shock failure is due to washing away a film that could be what the seal is actually sealing against.
I have overhauled transmissions that quit working as the result of a flush. The internal surfaces of drums would have sludge layer. The seal conditioners can soften up the seals and they will conform to surface again and seal. Lip seals have little likelihood of this problem but a lot of apply piston seals are o rings and the way an o ring works it either drags the surface or the fluid behind it pushes it and it ovals and contacts surface and seals. Seal conditioners that swell the seal slightly and soften it can be a long term fix. I do not use additives in any fluids normally and have very few success stories with repairs poured out of bottles but trans additives are an exception.
New fluid usually has positive effects on seals and a slower introduction where the fluid has a chance to help the seals but not so much is introduced at one time to wash the sludge away immediately.
I think this problem is less likely to occur these days. Electronic transmissions reduce wear and fluids are better.

[Tnguy5250]

I have a 2004 S60, 2.5L T sedan. I have been pulling my transmission fluid out through my dipstick and wonder if this is an effective way to change my transmission fluid. I pull out about 4 quarts at a time and then replace them with fresh fluid.

[ZionXIX]

I have a 2004 S60, 2.5L T sedan. I have been pulling my transmission fluid out through my dipstick and wonder if this is an effective way to change my transmission fluid. I pull out about 4 quarts at a time and then replace them with fresh fluid.

Whatever gets the fluid changed. You may want to remove the drain plug to check for metal on the magnet. The other option is to disconnect from the radiator and change all the fluid. The process is well documented on the forum.