244-Overheating above 105 degrees Topic is solved

Rob1 · Post by **Rob1** » 19 Jun 2012, 09:08

1992, 244 Volvo GL - automatic transmission 166,000 miles.

Everything runs fine "except" when the outside temperature is above 105 degrees
( temp in Phoenix today was 112 degrees with the temp gauge on the wall outside the mechanics shop reading 123 degrees in the sun). This is our only primary vehicle.

If the car idles alot the the temp gauge will creep up. If the A/C is shut off or the idle speed increased the temp gauge will creep back down to normal. I had this same problem when the car had 83167 miles on it. The mechanic replaced the original radiator with on oversized radiator that measures 22.5 inches length, 17.5 inches high, and 2.5 inches in width. It seemed to take care of the problem until now.

Radiator that was installed at 83167 miles has been rodded and chemically flushed. New themostat, fan, and hoses within the last year.

I am thinking that a new radiator would solve the problem but would appreciate any suggestions.

"If" a new radiator would possibly solve the problem.

Is there any recommendations on a "all metal oversized radiator"?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Rob O'Halloran

lummert · Post by **lummert** » 19 Jun 2012, 10:23

If this critter has an engine driven fan check the fan clutch. A tropical fan clutch may be what you need.

Post by **JDS60R** » 19 Jun 2012, 10:31

+1 for the tropical fan clutch.
Also check to see if the AC fan is turning on.

The mechanic can do a flow check for you. seeing as how you needed a rad about 83K miles ago it might be time. What are you using for a coolant. 83K seems early for replacement.

Post by **jimmy57** » 19 Jun 2012, 11:18

240's 85-93 have a long history of the temp gauge's electronic stabilizing circuit giving issues that lead to the gauge being very unstable (Volvo has a few of these fixes for a problem that make a worse problem when they good up).
Before you spend any money or do anything please have someone put a temp probe into the upper hose and see what the real temp is. Many digital multimeters have an included accessory temp probe that is very slender and designed to be slid by the upper hose where it connects to radiator or thermostat housing and then you tighten the hose clamp. Usually without a leak but if it leaks it is very small and very slow leak. The car can be driven and then parked in gear, a/c on, parking brake set and temp monitored. I suggest they turn on headlights to see if that drives up temp gauge without the coolant temp changing.
Volvo as well as many other manufacturers starting having "attenuated" gauges. The temp gauge will go to normal half scale at 185 +/- and stay there until the temp gets to 220 +/- when working right. With ground problems for cluster or if the temp gauge compensating circuit board pins get corroded from soldering flux residue from manufacturing, the gauge will jump up when temp gets to 210 and sometimes the gauge will be at less than half when the temp is 195 or so.
If the temp is actually getting over 220 then check things as listed above.

Rob1 · Post by **Rob1** » 19 Jun 2012, 18:55

Thanks to lummert, JDS60R, and jimmy57 for your replies.

Took down to mechanic yesterday when it was overheating.

May not have communicated the problem correctly. It appears to be an airflow problem.

We checked all the fans and they are working. When the temp gauge is creeping up. If the vehicle is put into neutral and the gas petal depressed half way down ( increases the air flow ) the temp gauge goes back down to normal or if idling at a stop light and the A/C is shutoff the gauge will go back down. The radiator was pulled last year when we blew a head gasket and chemically cleaned and rodded. Thermostat, hoses, and coolant was changed at that time.

The reason we have eliminated some of the stuff is last summer it overheated and blew a head gasket warping the head. At the time I did not believe the gauge because to the problems above 105 degrees. It made a believer out me.

That is the reason I was looking or leaning toward a larger radiator than the present oversized radiator that was installed in 2002 at 83167 miles and we had a similar problem at that time. The present radiator is larger than the original. Might be able to go with more width or thicker radiator but their may be a different way to approach the problem. Might be able to gain 5 inches on radiator length if I put the air intake in the hood. But my wife of 40 years did not buy that idea.

The mechanic wants to adjust the idle up to compensate for the lack of air flow above 105 degrees. Not sure this is a long term solution.

Maybe one solution would be to move to a place where the temp never reaches 105 degrees.

We really like this car.

Thanks,
Rob O'Halloran

Post by **JDS60R** » 19 Jun 2012, 19:00

Does the electric fan come on when you turn on the AC ?

Did you replace the fan clutch?

Rob =Please read this article - www.FCPeuro.com has the tropical clutch and you get a discount by mentioning that you are a MVS member. Speak to Mike Rivera when you call.

Please read this
http://www.davebarton.com/TropicalFanClutch.html

Post by **jimmy57** » 19 Jun 2012, 19:19

You list the perfect symptoms of the gauge acting up. I think the earlier rad upgrade was good idea but later 240's, when they were still on the road in numbers, got t-stats, rads, fan clutches, even larger electric fans added. The problem would seem to go away because all those things kept the temp down to 205 or so. The temp gauge is supposed to let eng temp get to 220 or a little more before it sends the needle up 1/4 or more. When there is a ground problem or the temp comp circuit board has connection problems the point where gauge goes from middle to just below red band can drop to 210 or even lower. The dash gauge IS NOT TO BE TRUSTED! Before your mechanic does anything you need to know if the temp is actually high. If it going to 210 or 215 then you may spend a lot of money to cool the engine down when all you need do is fix the gauge. I worked on these cars when the year models with these issues were new to 4-5 years old. We threw away a lot of car owner's money only to have the car come back with idling overtemp on gauge again. Then we checked and knew the cars showing high on gauge were running cooler than a car next to it that has upper hose temp 5-7 degrees more. Tighten the dash ground wire behind carpet at console side to front corner on driver's side and clean and tighten the connections inside the cluster where the temp comp circuit board fits and the issue was fixed for good. A second fix is to get rid of the temp comp board by jumpering pins 1 and 3 in the cluster and eliminating the comp circuit board. If you eliminte the board you will have an honest gauge. It will go up above 1/2 scale up a hill and drop to 1/4 scale coasting down a hill. Go up a bit idling and come down when you get 1/2 block down the street. The comp board was added to make the gauge lie to you and stay in one place over the normal temp variations the engine sees in hot weather.

You do not mention losing coolant. 240's really running hot will burp water out of the coolant tank cap after you shut them off in 100 + degree weather.
Your car may be running hot but if you spend money and it then you figure out it really isn't overheating you will have wasted a big fraction of that car's worth for nothing.
There is no way to raise idle on that car since it has computer regulated idle.

lummert · Post by **lummert** » 19 Jun 2012, 19:54

Does the engine idle increase when the a/c is switched on?

Post by **JDS60R** » 20 Jun 2012, 10:12

Jimmy makes a strong point.

Please confirm that an overheating engine is the problem before we try to fix a perfectly fine working cooling system. Time for some temp readings and some info on if the car is boiling over.

Rob1 · Post by **Rob1** » 20 Jun 2012, 10:39

Thanks jimmy57, lummert, JDS60R for the replies:

End of last summer we eliminated the gauges and whether the engine was overheating. Did the jumper between the pins. Removed it. Put a new temp compensating board. The reason I blew a head gasket is because "I" did not believe the gauge.

We checked the fan clutch & the electric fan when the gauge went up on Monday. They are working. When we had the hood up on Monday. There is plenty of air flow. I will try to define plenty of air flow - about a 15-20 mph breeze. If I was not bald it would blow any hair I had straight back.

Concerning the idle - I do not know. But will check it out by tomorrow. Wife has car today. Since the idle was mentioned. Not sure if it is related. But, if car is run at high speed ( 65 mph ) for 15 minutes and then you pull into a parking lot - the idle runs fast and hitting the gas petal will not knock it down. But will reset itself when car is shutoff and restarted.

Appreciate all your help.

Take Care!
Rob O'Halloran