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1994 850 won't idle but will rev, replaced MAF now no start

Help, Advice and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's P80 platform cars -- Volvo's 1990s "bread and butter" cars -- powered by the ubiquitous and durable Volvo inline 5-cylinder engine.

1992 - 1997 850, including 850 R, 850 T-5R, 850 T-5, 850 GLT
1997 - 2000 S70, S70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70, V70 AWD
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xterraguy
Posts: 8
Joined: 25 October 2015
Year and Model: 2005 V70 2.5T +more
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1994 850 won't idle but will rev, replaced MAF now no start

Post by xterraguy »

Howdy all. New to the forum and I've tried to dig around for anyone reporting similar issues but quite frankly this place is just so active there's too much to dig through. Apologies if I've not done enough due diligence but my eyes started to cross from trying to screen through it all. Then again, hopefully this has been seen before and it's a simple, or at least understood, issue. I've really had little time to spend with it so far, and the time change has pretty much killed any opportunity to poke at it after work before it gets dark :(

Picked up a 94 850 non-turbo wagon a few weeks ago for my son for chump change. Story is that the previous owner had it at a shop for some issue, the shop apparently never got around to doing anything with it for 2 years and the owner by that time had replaced it, so he literally gave it with a signed title to the owner of a German auto repair shop to do with as they pleased. German shop replaced the cat that was stolen while it sat at the other shop, and did a little bit of fiddling, but really didn't have the time/space to keep it around long enough so he sold it for peanuts. Car is in pretty good shape, 160-some thousand miles. Anyway, I figured for how little I paid, if I spent that much again into getting it back on the road it would be a bargain. The German shop stated that it would start reluctantly but absolutely didn't want to run unless you revved it, but it did get a bit less cranky if you stayed at it long enough to get it warmed up. I was able to do just that at their shop, so I knew it wasn't kaput. It's pretty damn loud exhaust leak somewhere. German shop couldn't say much more other than they suspected an EGR issue. New one from RockAuto is nearly what I paid for the car, so I'm hoping it's something else.

Got it home and have done a little poking and prodding. Drained the tank, replaced fuel filter, put in a couple of gallons of fresh gas with methyl dry-gas and half a bottle of Techron concentrate. I've replaced the plugs, they had a good bit of carbon and the tops of the pistons look like 120-grit black oxide sandpaper. I sprayed a bunch of Seafoam in through the plug holes and let it sit overnight hoping to get rid of that, no dice. Plug wires were original, replaced with a used set that look near new. Cheap, but I'm trying to keep this on a shoestring budget, at least until I have things narrowed down. I know all cylinders are firing, as each runner on the exhaust manifold gets hot after it runs for a few seconds

Symptoms are...
  • It will crank and fire with some initial reluctance, but dies immediately unless you give it gas. It will start to rev and once it gets above 3000 it revs strong, but still wants to choke down again after a couple of seconds even with foot still on the throttle. Releasing and mashing the throttle a time or two will get it to rev again, and repeat.
  • After a bit of this, as it warms, it will hold a strong 3000 RPM or so without apparent issue, but the lower you go the more it wants to die off again. Eventually once the temp is up enough, you can hold about 1500 RPM smoothly, anything less it struggles, and of course it will die if you let off.
  • The only code I've gotten from it was for the MAF, and snagged one from a pick-and-pull and no more code, but then it refuses start at all. It will give just one cough after about 2-3 seconds of cranking but nothing. Try again, another cough, repeat. No attempt to "run" like it would with the bad MAF. No new codes logged. Disconnecting the MAF connector returns to the previous behavior and throws the MAF code again.
At one point while it was happy to hold 1500 RPM I pulled off a small vacuum line from the back of the top of the fan and let it slurp Seafoam, and the RPMs would rev up to 4000 or more while it did so and would continue to rev while supplied Seafoam even if the throttle was closed. To me this says it's getting air from somewhere else to allow it to run on the Seafoam, but I've had others tell me that their engine would race while feeding it Seafoam too. Around this time my son noticed the exhaust was glowing red downstream of the cat, hope I've not cooked it. He also said it sounded like the exhaust leak was before the cat. I've not gotten underneath for a real good look yet but I've given everything a wiggle and a grope and haven't pinpointed it yet.


Long story short, car went to shop with unspecified problem, spent 2 years not getting fix, found its way to another shop that didn't spend much time with it before selling it to me. Starts and runs reluctantly. Only code was MAF, swapped and now no code but it doesn't want to start anymore. It would run with the bad MAF (and still behaves the same with MAF disconnected.

Anyone have some ideas on where to focus?

Thanks everyone!
Brent
Last edited by xterraguy on 06 Nov 2015, 18:52, edited 1 time in total.

Ozark Lee
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Post by Ozark Lee »

Try just unplugging the MAF altogether and see if it will run.

...Lee
'94 850 N/A 5 speed
'96 Platinum Edition Turbo
Previous:
1999 V70XC - Nautic Blue - Totaled while parked.
1999 V70XC - RIP - Wrecked Parts Car.
1998 S70 T5
1996 850 N/A
1989 740 GLT
1986 740 GLT
1972 142 Grand Luxe

xterraguy
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Year and Model: 2005 V70 2.5T +more
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Post by xterraguy »

I've done that already, and it runs just as it did before with a the MAF that was throwing the code.

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Post by Ozark Lee »

The pick-n-pull MAF may be bad or it may be for a different ECU setup. On a '94 non turbo you likely have the Jetronic LH3.2 ECU which spits codes out of both ports A-2 and A-6. The interpretation of the codes is different than the typically published port A-2 codes that are for the Motronic system. Most '94 NA cars do not have an OBD-II port and if it doesn't then it likely is the Jetronic setup. Cars after '95 all have a Motronic regardless of the engine, turbo or NA. Many of the sensors are different between the two ECU setups and the MAF is one of them.

The way to tell for sure is to pull the cover off of the ECU box and see how many modules there are. Assuming that the car has an automatic there will be three modules for the LH3.2 and 2 modules for the Motronic.

A bad MAF can be worse than no MAF at all but lets make sure that really is the problem first. You have done a number of very correct things like getting rid of the stale fuel. Since it does run reluctantly that is an indication that you are getting spark which eliminates several things.

Very low fuel pressure could also be causing the problem so a good next step would be to get a fuel pressure gauge on the Schrader valve at the end of the fuel rail. You are looking for around 43 PSI.

I'm not sure where you read the codes but if you can read the codes from both ports A-2 and A-6 and post back the actual code numbers it could be helpful. Just identify which code is associated with which port.

...Lee
'94 850 N/A 5 speed
'96 Platinum Edition Turbo
Previous:
1999 V70XC - Nautic Blue - Totaled while parked.
1999 V70XC - RIP - Wrecked Parts Car.
1998 S70 T5
1996 850 N/A
1989 740 GLT
1986 740 GLT
1972 142 Grand Luxe

Ou2mame
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Post by Ou2mame »

My dad has a v70 and one of the vacuum lines had become disconnected on the throttle body and it wouldn't hold an idle, but it would rev fine.

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RussB
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Post by RussB »

I'd be looking hard for a vacuum leak
'00 S70, '04 S60 and the never ending quest for Stage Zero

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Post by Sommerfeldt »

RussB wrote:I'd be looking hard for a vacuum leak
+1 on this. 80% of issues on these cars seems to originate in either vacuum or boost leaks... which amount to the same lines, come to think of it... :D

- S
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xterraguy
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Year and Model: 2005 V70 2.5T +more
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Post by xterraguy »

Ozark Lee wrote: The way to tell for sure is to pull the cover off of the ECU box and see how many modules there are. Assuming that the car has an automatic there will be three modules for the LH3.2 and 2 modules for the Motronic.
Yeah, 3 modules. Definitely no OBD-II, just the self-diagnostic. I pulled codes from A2 and A6 and only got the MAF code, other side was 1-1-1.

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Post by abscate »

No idle problems are often problems with the hoses on the Idle Air Control valve. The IAC often bunks up too; search for threads on that.

This car could easily require 2000 of parts, let alone repairs. Run a compression test to make,sure the engine isn't scrap before you spend another Pfennig.
Empty Nester
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xterraguy
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Year and Model: 2005 V70 2.5T +more
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Post by xterraguy »

I should also mention this came with a ton of service history from the previous owner, it has been well maintained.

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