crank, no start.

[thejallenator]

You have to focus on the basics of spark and fuel and not transient readings

What is the fuel pressure at the rail?

Are you still getting spark every5 seconds?

Test the 12V supply at the coils

Well I think these transient readings are the main problem here! The entire time I attempt to crank the engine I see the tach jumping far higher than what the engine speed is actually turning. I believe its causing the car to just dump fuel as it thinkins its truly running at that speed.

With that said I still have spark, 12v at the coils and about 50 to 55 psi at the fuel rail. Holds pressurr over night. Ive checked all the things I'd assume it could be. I'm almost at the point its got to be a bad sensor, wiring or some sort of computer. No difference trying starting fluid. I'm stumped.

[tryingbe]

Try another RPM/Crank sensor.

[abscate]

If starting fluid isn’t lighting up you don’t have spark or spark at the right time.
Double check the timing marks and make sure the engine hasn’t jumped time

[thejallenator]

If starting fluid isn’t lighting up you don’t have spark or spark at the right time.
Double check the timing marks and make sure the engine hasn’t jumped time

There's definitely spark. The engine is just getting so flooded out immediately. After maybe just 10 to 15 seconds of cranking there is a huge odor of gas. Spark plugs were soaked. The car actually almost started when I pulled the fuse for fuel injectors to trt clearing out some of the excess fuel. Ill look into the timing in the next few days. I do remember that when I looked at the timing while the engine was running a while back on the laptop at idle it would show it jumping around a good 5-7 degrees. Never a constant. Bounces from like 12* to 17*

[thejallenator]

Try another RPM/Crank sensor.

Already replaced it, same results. But in assuming this is the only place the tach gets its signal? So in theory unplugging it should result in no movement from the tach at all? I'm going to unplug it and see what happens. Seems like something is backfeeding or crossing over causing these odd signs, car thinking it's revving at 7800+ and 125% boost at cranking, but what?

[thejallenator]

Tested the crank sensor in the car per the pelicanparts.com instructions. For the most part it read less than 10 MV and the highest was around 30MV. Sounds like it is out of wack. Assuming it should have a somewhat consistent number. Not bouncing. Idk. Ill order another one and see what happens. Any reason this sensor would fail so fast? Tjid one Can't be more than 6 months and 500 miles old.

[abscate]

That sensor should cost about $100, if it less than that chances of out of box quality issues are high

[thejallenator]

got the new crank sensor today. installed it and the car started. but idled horribly. kinda had some stinky black smoke. first time the car has started iin close to maybe 2-3 months. attempted to drive it around the block a few times and it seemed to lack any power at all. CEL came on almost imediately. circled the block and came home, as i left one stop sign i got no response from the gas pedal for a few seconds. putting it to the floor did nothing. after a second or so it finally seemed to have caught and the car accellerated. went to leave another stop sign and the car died. had to press the gas few times then it finally started again. got it back home and it died again. when i started it a 3rd time it idled really low, around 500rpm. tach still jumps up when attempting to crank. also continues to "surge" out like it was. same symptoms but now it will kinda start.


codes!!!
P0335 crank sensor
p1238 Tturbo control valve, flow too high.
p1608 not so sure about this one. i think it is for the Etm

iim assuming the ETM is failing or has failed. i do know that this car never got the software update for the etm. not sure how much this affects things, but i have no way to take the car to a dealership to have this preformed. most likely going to attempt to sell the car and recoup some of my lost money

[thejallenator]

i cant let this car get the best of me. hooked up vida this morning to look at whats going on while the car was running. seemed like the car might have had a vacuum leak by the way it kinda acted. vida said at idle i was getting 1030 kPa and pressing the gas pedal would get it up to 1150 kPa. now im not sure what this car shold be at idle, anyone got input on this? too low or too high?
now the kicker. whats the ignition timing supposed to be on this car? at idle mine will jump from -8* btdc to 10* btdc. seems like a lot of variation just at idle. if i press the throttle and hold it at 1000 rpm the ignition timing it about 28.5* bdtc. where is the timing picked up at and sent to the ecm?

[RickHaleParker]

.

ECM-903F (P1608) Throttle position (TP).

Diagnostic trouble code (DTC) information ECM-903F

IMG-245444 Condition
The engine control module (ECM) sends a request for the desired throttle angle to the electronic throttle module (ETM) via the CAN network. The electronic throttle module (ETM) fulfills the desired throttle angle and sends back information on current throttle position. If the engine control module (ECM) detects that the current throttle angle, which comes from the electronic throttle module (ETM), deviates from the desired angle, it stores diagnostic trouble code ECM-903F, low signal or no signal.
Diagnostic trouble code ECM-903F, Signal missing, is stored when the desired throttle angle is stable and the deviation is greater than 5% for 0.5 seconds.
Diagnostic trouble code ECM-903F, Too low signal, is stored when desired throttle angle is under heavy change, e.g., during acceleration, and the deviation is greater than 20 % for 0.5 seconds.

The above test is only active when engine speed exceeds 600 rpm.

The diagnostic trouble code also includes a check that software in the electronic throttle module (ETM) has time to carry out the instructions and calculations it is expected to do in each work cycle. After each work cycle, the electronic throttle module (ETM) sends a code to the engine control module (ECM) via the CAN network. After a correctly completed work cycle, the code should be AAAA. If Engine control module (ECM) detects that Electronic throttle module (ETM) sends anything else than AAAA for longer time than 0.5 seconds, then diagnostic trouble code ECM-903F, Too high signal, is stored.

For upgraded software, released during year 2006 or later, certain adjustments have been made.

Signal missing
When it comes to the comparison between desired throttle angle and current throttle angle, the Engine control module (ECM) must have received the current throttle angle from the Electronic throttle module (ETM) on the CAN-net, before the test is activated. The deviation between desired throttle angle and actual throttle angle is changed from the fixed value of 5 %, across the whole range, to a variable limit. The variable limit is within 5 % deviation at 10 % desired throttle angle, it is then increased up to 10 % deviation at 50 % desired throttle angle. In order for it to be considered a deviation, is requires that the current throttle angle is greater than the desired throttle angle, which is a difference from before. Then the diagnostic trouble code was also generated if the desired throttle angle was greater than the current throttle angle.

Signal too low
When it comes to the comparison between desired throttle angle and current throttle angle, the Engine control module (ECM) must have received the current throttle angle from the Electronic throttle module (ETM) on the CAN-net, before the test is activated. In order for it to be considered a deviation, is requires that the current throttle angle is 20% greater than the desired throttle angle, which is a difference from before. Then the diagnostic trouble code was also generated if the desired throttle angle was greater than the current throttle angle. Another condition has been added to this. Engine control module (ECM) calculates the air mass in to the engine using, among other, information about the throttle position, engine rpm, EVAP-flow, air temperature, atmospheric pressure and pressure in the intake manifold. Then the measured air mass from the mass air flow sensor is compared with the calculated air mass. If Engine control module (ECM) registers that the measured air mass is sufficiently greater than the calculated air mass, then diagnostic trouble code ECM-903F, Too low signal, is stored.

Signal too high
The detection time is changed from 0.5 seconds to 2.5 seconds. See Identifying upgraded software ECM/ETM

Substitute value
Fuel cut-off that follows accelerator pedal position.
Engine speed is regulated via fuel cut-off by deactivating the injectors one at a time. Engine speed is determined by gas pedal position sensor position and engine speed is maximized to about 5000 rpm. This reconfiguration can cause the engine to idle very unevenly since the engine control module (ECM) regulates engine speed by cutting of the fuel to the cylinders individually. Do not confuse this reconfiguration (engine behavior) with an actual driveability problem that was present before reconfiguration.

Closing of throttle during braking.
The accelerator pedal position is ignored when the brake pedal is depressed.

Cruise control off.
Cruise control off during entire operating cycle in which fault was detected. If the fault is no longer present, the function is available the next time the car is started.

For upgraded software, released in 2006 or later, adjustments have been made to substitute values. In the driving cycles where the fault is active, then fuel shut-off which follows the accelerator pedal position will be active and cruise control will be shut off.
See Identifying upgraded software ECM/ETM

Possible source
Signal too low or signal missing:

• Low voltage feed to electronic throttle module (loose connections or contact resistance in connections, low system voltage).
  Damaged CAN cables.
  Disruptions on CAN signal cables.
  Damaged electronic throttle module (ETM).

Signal too high: Software not upgraded.

• Incorrect software in Engine control module (ECM) or Electronic throttle module (ETM).
  low power supply to the electronic throttle module (ETM) (loose terminals or contact resistance in the terminals, low system voltage)
  loose connections or contact resistance in the terminals for the CAN
  defective wiring for the control area network (CAN)
  interference on the CAN signal wiring

Signal too high: Upgraded software.
Incorrect software in Engine control module (ECM) or Electronic throttle module (ETM).

Hint:
This diagnostic trouble code is generated in combination with other trouble codes. Information on the possible root cause is described. See: Information about combined diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs)

Fault symptoms

• the accelerator pedal (AP) is ignored when braking
  the cruise control is not functioning at all
  uneven idle
  jerks during engine braking.