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ISO oil additive controversy- maths needed

Help, Advice, Owners' Discussion and DIY Tutorials on Volvo XC90s. The XC90 proved to be very popular, and very good for Volvo's sales numbers, since its introduction in model year 2003 (North America).
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ISO oil additive controversy- maths needed

Post by wanderdüne » Thu May 23, 2019 4:11 pm

My 2003 T6 has a small oil leak from a cam seal and many many miles to go before the timing belt needs changed. And I don't have the appetite to do it early. I recently added about 1.5 cups of Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Conditioner when I topped it off about 2 months ago. Now there is no more leaks. I added it to mobil1 5W-30. I plan on adding 2 cups to my next oil change using 0w30.
I rate the Lucas product at being about, say, 75w-90. I'm not actually seeking controversy or additive talk and etc., just marketing my thread. I have a faith belief in Lucas products that any amount of facts or science won't change anyway.

So here's my maths question:

If I add 2 cups of Lucas (75w-90) and 26-ish cups mobil1 or similar 0w-30 as my next oil fill, what weight oil will I end up with?
** bonus question**: How about with 5W-30?
Thanks

p.s. PCV is fine*

vvv ha, guess I kind of set myself up for that one :) vvv
Last edited by wanderdüne on Thu May 23, 2019 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: ISO oil additive controversy- maths needed

Post by RickHaleParker » Thu May 23, 2019 4:27 pm

~ 14 Lbs of oil.


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Re: ISO oil additive controversy- maths needed

Post by jimmy57 » Thu May 23, 2019 10:27 pm

That amount of Lucas is not going to have a big effect on the 0W30, maybe 2W32. If you started with 5W30 then maybe 7W33.

By the way, Honda and Toyota now have a synthetic oil for their turbo 4 cylinders that is 0W16. I'm thinking 5W20 with some 3in1 oil added to it. I have not handled any of it but I figure it runs out of the bottle like water. It would probably fix that crap where the grate on white motors slows down the oil ingress and it runs out on top of motor.



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Re: ISO oil additive controversy- maths needed

Post by June » Fri May 24, 2019 8:58 am

February this year at about 176K my mystery oil (small amounts) leak for several months turned out to be a VVT hub leaking and then it let loose. I only mention this because our T6 engines are the same age (my car's build date 5/03) you don't mention miles. And when it let loose oil came out of the timing cover from every angle!!! Had I not stopped for gasoline and opened the hood I surely would have ran the engine out of oil. I'm not saying that is your problem. I just want you to be aware of the possibility and no amount of Lucas would have stopped it once it let loose. Also recently I have read others having VVT hub leaks in 5 cylinder engines in our age bracket.

As far as your trial with Lucas, I find your experiment interesting. I asked about oil additives back before I switched to Redline oil and nobody responded. So keep us posted, I'll be reading! June
Last edited by June on Fri May 24, 2019 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: ISO oil additive controversy- maths needed

Post by Masscomguru » Fri May 24, 2019 4:12 pm

Had a similar issue on a 2.5 and when it let go, it was dropping a qt of oil every 20 miles.... I wouldn't wait too long on that.



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Re: ISO oil additive controversy- maths needed

Post by wanderdüne » Sat May 25, 2019 9:42 am

June wrote: ↑
Fri May 24, 2019 8:58 am
February this year at about 176K my mystery oil (small amounts) leak for several months turned out to be a VVT hub leaking and then it let loose. I only mention this because our T6 engines are the same age (my car's build date 5/03) you don't mention miles. And when it let loose oil came out of the timing cover from every angle!!! Had I not stopped for gasoline and opened the hood I surely would have ran the engine out of oil. I'm not saying that is your problem. I just want you to be aware of the possibility and no amount of Lucas would have stopped it once it let loose. Also recently I have read others having VVT hub leaks in 5 cylinder engines in our age bracket.

As far as your trial with Lucas, I find your experiment interesting. I asked about oil additives back before I switched to Redline oil and nobody responded. So keep us posted, I'll be reading! June
My '03 T6 is sitting at 187K mi. , bought at around 172K-ish mi. about a year and a half ago. It's been leaking about same amount since I got it; usually one or two small drops overnight and losing I think about 2-3? cups oil every 1000 miles or so by whatever means. Thanks for the heads up about the VVT hub leaks possibility. I am really going to have to look at what I assumed much more closely to rule that out. I looked at this thread from the other forum https://forums.swedespeed.com/showthrea ... -2005-2-5T . Play in the hub is mentioned in a post(s) and also oil sprayed on the interior of the cover. I don't know if I will be able to ascertain play when it's all together, but I will try.

About the Lucas: I used this product years ago on a couple of high miles VW's, a Fox and a Jetta that both had significant lifter noise (and it worked) and I didn't feel like changing the cam ecosystem, because everything was so used to the other pieces:) Anyway, a side effect of that was that both cars stopped leaking any oil. I still see the Fox around, it must be over 300K mi. by now. I think Lucas makes a stop leak as well, but I haven't used it.

The Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer makes small claim on the label to reduce engine oil leaks and that is backed up by many (customer) reviews, and has been my experience. Lucas also produces a "low viscosity" "for synthetic" version of this product, but without the leak- slowing claim and they state that it is for engines that need the thinner oil; but I'm not going to experiment with that.

The Lucas Heavy Duty Engine Oil Stabilizer calls for a 20% product to 80% engine oil ratio. I (and apparently Lucas) feel that's too much for these more modern engines. Given the thickness of the product, I wanted to use the smallest effective amount, so I mixed (when warm) 2 cups stabilizer to 2 cups engine oil in a bottle, then poured 3 cups of that mixture into the engine when the level was low (1.5 cups lucas). I still get a drop on the floor of the garage, but maybe once a week or so. I haven't needed to add any oil since I did that fill, I estimate it to be about 1200-1500 miles. I am about to do my bi-yearly change, and will do the 2 cups Lucas to 26 cups 5W-30 for summer; it's hot here. For winter, I imagine I will go with a 0W-30. I will update this from time to time.

FWIW, It's a lot less freaky feeling/looking to mix this product with engine oil when adding, especially when it's cold. I flows slow out of the bottle at cooler temps, but pours good when it's mixed with engine oil.
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Re: ISO oil additive controversy- maths needed

Post by June » Sat May 25, 2019 10:39 am

When my VVT hub was leaking it was the mystery leak I was fearing to be a turbocharger. I'd drive 1000 miles no oil used then poof .25 of a quart would disappear in between a fill up. I check all fluids for level and condition at every fuel fill up. So maybe .50 of a quart in 3000 miles. How often I needed to add oil had no consistency, but was always a minor amount. My dealer kept saying it was burning it not leaking it. Then one evening I stopped for gas and opened the hood and it had just let loose! The area of the plastic timing cover and engine area next to it was wet with oil. It was coming out of the timing cover from all angles everywhere! Big mess, and engine on = oil pouring out everywhere! Not driveable for far.

Also in my car the half a year or so before ithe VVT hubs were replaced the first start in the morning had a rattle sound for the first split second like a dry start sound. Also low rpm clatter (very slight) just above idle (split second) when pulling off from a stop. Since replacement both sounds are gone as well as the mystery disappearing oil. June


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1989 740 GLT ordered
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Re: ISO oil additive controversy- maths needed

Post by MoVolvos » Sat May 25, 2019 2:39 pm

-
Sorry, Wrong Post So Removed.


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Re: ISO oil additive controversy- maths needed

Post by wanderdüne » Sat May 25, 2019 4:40 pm

The best information I can find on LOS is that it is a 60W oil w/ not really any additives. Below maths that I hope I did right, is for a 2003 T6 XC90 with a 28 cup oil change using 2C of Lucas Oil Stabilizer and 26C motor oil. Again, best info I could find is that the Lucas is 60W.

The maths: 2C LOS added to 5W-30:
If the Lucas is 60W, then it is 8.9W-32
if 80W, then 10.3W-33.5
if 100W, then 11.7W-35

The maths: 2C LOS added to 0W-30:
if 60W, then 4.2W-32.1
if 80W, then 5.7W-33.6
if 100W, then 7.1W-35



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Re: ISO oil additive controversy- maths needed

Post by abscate » Mon May 27, 2019 3:12 pm

RickHaleParker wrote: ↑
Thu May 23, 2019 4:27 pm
~ 14 Lbs of oil.
Lbs force or mass?

We can slug this out in a new thread which is less viscous.

oP....we sometimes call this error the Laffer fallacy, where assuming behavior between two endpoints of an independent variable is simple. It was funny until someone tried to run the AMERICAN economy on it.


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