I read with interest the thread on the defrost/floor heat damper problem. I am experiencing this on a 1996 850 Turbo Wagon. I write to ask a question -- how do I know if it is caused by a broken damper flap or a fried damper motor? I took the sound dampening panel off from under the passenger side dashboard, and can see and move the flap -- it feels like it is on a spring, as it comes back into position (closed) readily. This suggests the flap and shaft are okay, and the damper motor is the culprit, yes?
Many thanks for all your input on this forum (and to Matthew for hosting it) -- I feel like we have a garage full of experts at the end of the mouse.
Preston
137,000 miles
No heat to the floor 96 850R with climate control
This topic is in the MVS Volvo Repair Database »
Fix Heat for the Volvo Damper
I can't speak for how the manual system works, but if it's the automatic, then you need to inspect/diagnose it to find out whether its the shaft (more likely) or the motor(less likely) or something else altogether.If your 96 has the automatic climate control (where you set the temperatures...) then I can't see how you could be turning that flap from underneath without having removed the damper motor. You must be turning something else.
To do that, go back to the previous page and re-read the posts, and remove the glove box as I wrote about. You don't need to remove the lower kickpanel to inspect it. The only way to inspect is to have that motor off, so you can visually inspect the end of the shaft. If it's cracked or broken, you'll clearly see it through the glove box opening, and then you can decide what course of action to take. If it's not the shaft, you'll be able to view the motor as you spin the dial on your climate control from defrost to floor, and the little motor will turn as you do if it is working properly.
A good heads up to help would be to have those car codes read, and see if you're getting a code from that damper motor or whether you've got some other issue.
To do that, go back to the previous page and re-read the posts, and remove the glove box as I wrote about. You don't need to remove the lower kickpanel to inspect it. The only way to inspect is to have that motor off, so you can visually inspect the end of the shaft. If it's cracked or broken, you'll clearly see it through the glove box opening, and then you can decide what course of action to take. If it's not the shaft, you'll be able to view the motor as you spin the dial on your climate control from defrost to floor, and the little motor will turn as you do if it is working properly.
A good heads up to help would be to have those car codes read, and see if you're getting a code from that damper motor or whether you've got some other issue.
1993 850 GLT
Close to 360,000 km
Close to 360,000 km
The part you need to replace is the damper door itself as in that link on the previous page. The part is approximately $10 to $15. It's the labour that'll kill ya... approximately 12 to 16 hours worth. The entire dash must come out. No other way around it if you can't repair that shaft any further.
You mentioned Duct Tape and glue as your choice of repair last time... not a great choice for long term durability. Try the originally suggested wrapping with solid copper wire (which I think is the best choice) or possibly a very small hose clamp or some other type of strong metal wrap around that shaft if you still can. Otherwise, you'll have to bite the bullet and replace the flap.
The only other suggestion for a temporary fix, and I don't recommend it, would be to remove that damper motor and try to rig something up that will just hold that flap open part-way. That way you'll have the vent blowing on floor and defrost at the same time, which gives you some heat to the floor but will slow your ability to defrost a windshield.
The following link is, I think, one of the best write-ups around, but not the only one...
http://www.woodjoiner.com/volvo/VolvoEvapReplace.pdf
Yes, it's a description of how to replace the evaporator, but you need to get to "step 5" of this task so it's applicable. There are a couple of things in the first few steps you won't have to do, like disconnecting the a/c lines, but I can clarify that later if you choose to go this route. If you sit down and really read it through, you'll see that the task of removing the dash is not "hard" per se, but very lengthy.
I did this job myself and it took 2 days of relaxed work, so that I didn't make any mistakes. I used sandwich baggies for every set of nuts or bolts, labeled and numbered them each time I removed something. I worked backwards, and no problems. It's not a job for everyone, but it fixes the problem permanently. If you choose to go this way, contact me and I can provide more information but the post really does spell it out clearly.
You mentioned Duct Tape and glue as your choice of repair last time... not a great choice for long term durability. Try the originally suggested wrapping with solid copper wire (which I think is the best choice) or possibly a very small hose clamp or some other type of strong metal wrap around that shaft if you still can. Otherwise, you'll have to bite the bullet and replace the flap.
The only other suggestion for a temporary fix, and I don't recommend it, would be to remove that damper motor and try to rig something up that will just hold that flap open part-way. That way you'll have the vent blowing on floor and defrost at the same time, which gives you some heat to the floor but will slow your ability to defrost a windshield.
The following link is, I think, one of the best write-ups around, but not the only one...
http://www.woodjoiner.com/volvo/VolvoEvapReplace.pdf
Yes, it's a description of how to replace the evaporator, but you need to get to "step 5" of this task so it's applicable. There are a couple of things in the first few steps you won't have to do, like disconnecting the a/c lines, but I can clarify that later if you choose to go this route. If you sit down and really read it through, you'll see that the task of removing the dash is not "hard" per se, but very lengthy.
I did this job myself and it took 2 days of relaxed work, so that I didn't make any mistakes. I used sandwich baggies for every set of nuts or bolts, labeled and numbered them each time I removed something. I worked backwards, and no problems. It's not a job for everyone, but it fixes the problem permanently. If you choose to go this way, contact me and I can provide more information but the post really does spell it out clearly.
1993 850 GLT
Close to 360,000 km
Close to 360,000 km
Thanks to all for the good tips on fixing the no-heat-to-the-floor problem. I found that one half of the damper flap shaft had broken completely away. Luckily, the broken part was sitting right there. I superglued it and put a small hose clamp on. Since the damper motor only turns one-quarter of a revolution, it was easy to gauge where the bulky "head" of the hose clamp should be set to ensure it did not hit anything as the shaft revolves. This seemed an easier and more secure treatment than the copper wire wrapping that others suggested.
Loosening the far side Torx 15 screw was the difficult part. I ended up using the Torx 10 that comes in the toolkit, without the handle, in order to get to the screwhead. Luckily again, it wasn't very tight, so I could remove it by turning it by hand, without having to figure a way to get a grip on it with pliers etc.
In my earlier post, I noted that I could move the flap, and that it seemed to be spring-loaded, as it came back to the closed position readily. I understand now that the flap I was referring to was not the damper flap, but something else. This flap is quite large -- maybe 7 x 4 inches? -- and is under the passenger side of the dashboard. I'm curious what its function is. Again, thanks to all for your responses. It feels great to fix something without recourse to the dealer. Preston
1996 850 Turbo Wagon (Platinum LE) with 138,000 miles.
Loosening the far side Torx 15 screw was the difficult part. I ended up using the Torx 10 that comes in the toolkit, without the handle, in order to get to the screwhead. Luckily again, it wasn't very tight, so I could remove it by turning it by hand, without having to figure a way to get a grip on it with pliers etc.
In my earlier post, I noted that I could move the flap, and that it seemed to be spring-loaded, as it came back to the closed position readily. I understand now that the flap I was referring to was not the damper flap, but something else. This flap is quite large -- maybe 7 x 4 inches? -- and is under the passenger side of the dashboard. I'm curious what its function is. Again, thanks to all for your responses. It feels great to fix something without recourse to the dealer. Preston
1996 850 Turbo Wagon (Platinum LE) with 138,000 miles.
Glad to hear your repair worked out... wish others who request the advice would post back to let us know if it helped them as well.
I'm trying to think of what it is that you are pulling on in terms of another flap. If you are reaching up about the midway horizontal point from under the dash on the passenger side (as in, middle of the glove box opening, I'm thinking it's the recirculation flap that you're pulling on. If it's beside your fan motor, then that's what it is...
I'm trying to think of what it is that you are pulling on in terms of another flap. If you are reaching up about the midway horizontal point from under the dash on the passenger side (as in, middle of the glove box opening, I'm thinking it's the recirculation flap that you're pulling on. If it's beside your fan motor, then that's what it is...
1993 850 GLT
Close to 360,000 km
Close to 360,000 km
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Rich
- Posts: 15
- Joined: 3 November 2009
- Year and Model: 97 850 Awd
- Location: Cranbrook, British Columbia
I know this might be a little late but better than never, right?
After removing the glove box I could see the damper motor.
If I switched the control switch from defrost to floor I could see and hear the motor turn. The problem was the square end on the rod( attached to the damper) that connects to the square end on the motor was broken. So the shaft on the motor was turning inside the shaft for the damper.
Instead of tearing the whole dash out as shown in the pictures (extreamly helpfull.....thanks!), I removed the motor and took a 3/8 hose clamp slid it over the broken end of the damper shaft-replaced the motor and tightened the clamp. I had to bend the excess of the clamp up to make sure it did not get hung up on anything.
I know its a little crude but it took all of 1 hour to fix and our feet are toasty!
After removing the glove box I could see the damper motor.
If I switched the control switch from defrost to floor I could see and hear the motor turn. The problem was the square end on the rod( attached to the damper) that connects to the square end on the motor was broken. So the shaft on the motor was turning inside the shaft for the damper.
Instead of tearing the whole dash out as shown in the pictures (extreamly helpfull.....thanks!), I removed the motor and took a 3/8 hose clamp slid it over the broken end of the damper shaft-replaced the motor and tightened the clamp. I had to bend the excess of the clamp up to make sure it did not get hung up on anything.
I know its a little crude but it took all of 1 hour to fix and our feet are toasty!
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bikesndrums
- Posts: 3
- Joined: 30 April 2009
- Year and Model: 97 850 T5 Wagon
- Location: Minnesota
Just performed this repair this afternoon (with a small electric space heater running in the floorboard!) and had to say a huge thank-you to the various posters on the subject. Got the glovebox out and the front two torx screws on the motor, and then realized that the third screw is in the back! With the quality of our Volvo plastics, before I knew it the tab of the third screw had broken off. Oh well, two hold it just fine.
When I got it apart, just as you had all said, there were the broken plastic pieces--3-5 of varying sizes in my case. After pulling all of them out, I needed to find a way to connect the two shafts. I tried a piece of plastic tubing that was lying around, but it was too small in diameter. Went into the basement for something else and suddenly remembered that I had something that might work--a cymbal sleeve (keeps brass cymbals from contacting directly with their metal stands). It was just slightly large in diameter, but a zip tie took care of that. Slipped the pieces back together, tried the switch, and viola it works again--turns out being a drummer has its advantages! So happy to get heat back to the floor, since highs in MN this week aren't supposed to get much above 0 F. MVS and its members ROCK!
When I got it apart, just as you had all said, there were the broken plastic pieces--3-5 of varying sizes in my case. After pulling all of them out, I needed to find a way to connect the two shafts. I tried a piece of plastic tubing that was lying around, but it was too small in diameter. Went into the basement for something else and suddenly remembered that I had something that might work--a cymbal sleeve (keeps brass cymbals from contacting directly with their metal stands). It was just slightly large in diameter, but a zip tie took care of that. Slipped the pieces back together, tried the switch, and viola it works again--turns out being a drummer has its advantages! So happy to get heat back to the floor, since highs in MN this week aren't supposed to get much above 0 F. MVS and its members ROCK!
I have a 97 850 T5 wagon and had same issue recently. Thanks to this forum, I solved it in an hour last weekend. In return, I thought I'd post my list of steps, since I got a bit confused reading about whether or not to remove the knee bolster, etc.
With thanks to another poster for his/her raw material, here's how easy it can be:
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1. I found a 4-way torx screwdriver to be invaluable for this job. Mine has a shaft you can pull out, and on each end is a reversible bit of different size. You'll see later why this is important. Also find a very small hose clamp, like for a fuel line, before starting.
2. Switch the blower to 12 o'clock. Open glove box, use tiny screwdriver to release the plastic arms by jamming it in next to them on the door end of the arms. You'll see a tiny hole here for that purpose. Remove the torx screws around glove box and remove box. It may seem stuck, just keep working at it, needlenose pliers help. Pull down on the top of box to slide it over the latch. You do NOT need to remove the knee bolster, don't waste your time.
3. Look at the upper left corner of your new dash opening. The motor you want to remove is the black black box held by 3 screws that are facing "left" toward the center of the dash. If you have any doubt, put your hand on the motor and turn the climate knob -- you can feel the motor doing its thing. The top and bottom screws are easy, it's the one in back that's a PITA as everyone mentions. I had to unplug an elec connector in the way, and then used JUST THE BIT from my 4-way screwdriver to remove the last screw. I loosened it by putting a small box-end wrench around the bit to turn it, but you might have luck w/ a 1/4" drive ratchet or flex shaft like others mention. Pull the motor straight out, away from the damper shaft.
4. Note the orientation of the split plastic on the end of damper shaft. You want to put the motor back in same position, so leave the climate knob at Defrost (12).
5. Slide your very small hose clamp over the plastic collar with the screw head of the clamp approximately facing the engine (possibly necessary to prevent interference from the clamp). If you were looking at the shaft straight on, I put the screw of the clamp at about 3 o'clock. I also bent the "extra" tab of the clamp back over itself after tightening, to get it out of the way. Tighten the clamp snug, but don't kill it. This was actually the hardest part for me, it's not easy to get the right angle w/ a screwdriver or wrench to tighten the clamp once it's around the failed plastic collar.
6. Insert the shaft of the damper motor, which should fit very tightly. If it slides in too easily or the test doesn't work, tighten the hose clamp more and try again. You should be able to screw the motor back in without any trouble.
7. Once everything fits nicely, give it a test run - it should be fixed.
8. Reinstall glove box and enjoy your warm feet!
With thanks to another poster for his/her raw material, here's how easy it can be:
----------------------
1. I found a 4-way torx screwdriver to be invaluable for this job. Mine has a shaft you can pull out, and on each end is a reversible bit of different size. You'll see later why this is important. Also find a very small hose clamp, like for a fuel line, before starting.
2. Switch the blower to 12 o'clock. Open glove box, use tiny screwdriver to release the plastic arms by jamming it in next to them on the door end of the arms. You'll see a tiny hole here for that purpose. Remove the torx screws around glove box and remove box. It may seem stuck, just keep working at it, needlenose pliers help. Pull down on the top of box to slide it over the latch. You do NOT need to remove the knee bolster, don't waste your time.
3. Look at the upper left corner of your new dash opening. The motor you want to remove is the black black box held by 3 screws that are facing "left" toward the center of the dash. If you have any doubt, put your hand on the motor and turn the climate knob -- you can feel the motor doing its thing. The top and bottom screws are easy, it's the one in back that's a PITA as everyone mentions. I had to unplug an elec connector in the way, and then used JUST THE BIT from my 4-way screwdriver to remove the last screw. I loosened it by putting a small box-end wrench around the bit to turn it, but you might have luck w/ a 1/4" drive ratchet or flex shaft like others mention. Pull the motor straight out, away from the damper shaft.
4. Note the orientation of the split plastic on the end of damper shaft. You want to put the motor back in same position, so leave the climate knob at Defrost (12).
5. Slide your very small hose clamp over the plastic collar with the screw head of the clamp approximately facing the engine (possibly necessary to prevent interference from the clamp). If you were looking at the shaft straight on, I put the screw of the clamp at about 3 o'clock. I also bent the "extra" tab of the clamp back over itself after tightening, to get it out of the way. Tighten the clamp snug, but don't kill it. This was actually the hardest part for me, it's not easy to get the right angle w/ a screwdriver or wrench to tighten the clamp once it's around the failed plastic collar.
6. Insert the shaft of the damper motor, which should fit very tightly. If it slides in too easily or the test doesn't work, tighten the hose clamp more and try again. You should be able to screw the motor back in without any trouble.
7. Once everything fits nicely, give it a test run - it should be fixed.
8. Reinstall glove box and enjoy your warm feet!
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