850GLT 1997 Looking like my car has jumped time

Post by **HareBall** » 15 Dec 2008, 08:22

I was driving my car last week and went about a mile when everything came to a stop. I had someone look at it and they told me it had jumped time due to the serpentine belt shredding a strip from one side.
I went ahead and had it towed home because I can't justify spending $2000 to have a head installed, just to have a $3000 car to drive.
I went ahead and tried to turn over the engine with a socket and can only get the crank to move a little ways in each direction.
I had done some checking around and found a rebuilt head from a guy in Atlanta for $450+shipping. From what I have seen this looks like a decent price. I will see when I get the old head off. I hope it is not a very hard job. I know it won't be like pulling the head on my old 360 in my truck

On another note, I probably already needed to pull the head. I found I had water in the oil when I checked it the other day, so maybe if I can do this work myself, can justify the cost.

chuckcintron · Post by **chuckcintron** » 15 Dec 2008, 10:58

I think you need to do some more diagnostics before you pull the head off. Did you have good leverage on the crank and are you sure you can't turn it more than a few degrees? I'm assuming you pulled the plugs out before you tried this, and the car was in neutral, right? (sorry to ask...but you never know).

Better to do a true compression test. If something is really broken, you won't break it any worse.

Serpentine belt causing a cam offset is really not possible. Did you pull the timing cover and get a look at the condition of the timing belt?

I hate to see you go through the work of replacing the head only to find out it was a fuel pump problem (or something like that).

-Chuck

Post by **MadeInJapan** » 15 Dec 2008, 16:10

Larry...I just got through helping a friend do a timing belt change on his 850...(so it's fresh on my mind). let me come over and we'll go over all the timing marks and take the TB off and back on if necessary, of if it's in bad shape- replace it to test the engine...you know, they aren't that much. Give me a call: 696-4163. I too hate for you to go through taking the head off or buying a new engine if things aren't really that badly damaged.
-Dave

Post by **HareBall** » 15 Dec 2008, 16:18

chuckcintron wrote:I think you need to do some more diagnostics before you pull the head off. Did you have good leverage on the crank and are you sure you can't turn it more than a few degrees? I'm assuming you pulled the plugs out before you tried this, and the car was in neutral, right? (sorry to ask...but you never know).

Better to do a true compression test. If something is really broken, you won't break it any worse.

Serpentine belt causing a cam offset is really not possible. Did you pull the timing cover and get a look at the condition of the timing belt?

I hate to see you go through the work of replacing the head only to find out it was a fuel pump problem (or something like that).

-Chuck

I have looked at the timing belt. It looks like new. No sheared off teeth or anything like that. I lined up the timing marks on the cams and the one for the crank did not line up.

I was able to move the cams about 90 degrees and I tried it with and without the plugs. I didn't put it in neutral, but I can't see what that would prevent from happening. It is an automatic after all.

I have already pulled the timing belt so I cant really check to see if I can move anything now, cause if I do I am pretty sure I will hit valves somewhere. I may see if I can line the marks up first and put the timing belt back on tomorrow. Then see what happens when I try to turn it over with a socket.

I have cranked it over with a socket in the past(I replaced the timing belt about 7 or 8 months ago) and I was able to turn it all the way around from the marks back to the marks.

chuckcintron · Post by **chuckcintron** » 15 Dec 2008, 16:43

Right..automatic doesn't matter.

Well, if you saw the timing marks off kilter then I guess you are headed down the path you were on. You must have had an issue with your tensioner then, to allow it to jump teeth on the cam.

-Chuck

Post by **MadeInJapan** » 15 Dec 2008, 16:46

I'm thinking seized water pump.
We'll look at it Sat. Thanks for the phone call...I hope we're in for a surprise that's a good one.
-MIJ

Post by **HareBall** » 15 Dec 2008, 18:04

I checked the water pump a little while ago and it is free. Feels like what I would expect it to feel like.
Maybe we will still find something better when we look at it Saturday.

Post by **HareBall** » 16 Dec 2008, 08:26

I was able to turn the crank over this morning

I hope that means that there isn't a bent valve.
I have lined up the timing marks on both cams and the crank(what a pain to see). I hope I have the crank right. I see what looks like someone hit it between 2 teeth with a file. By accident I might add. It is a little v right at the edge of the gear.
I am going back to the junkyard to swap this power steering pump for the right one.

chuckcintron · Post by **chuckcintron** » 16 Dec 2008, 10:29

If it turns without making any weird noises, then that's a good sign.

You really need to button it back up and do a compression test.

-Chuck

Post by **HareBall** » 18 Dec 2008, 06:33

Didn't make any noise that I heard

I am going to start putting everything back today and be ready to look at it seriously Saturday when MIJ comes by.