1996 850 glt cam and crank seal leak after install

barb n 1st country · Post by **barb n 1st country** » 02 May 2015, 13:37

After repairing burned valves and getting the car back to great running condition, i have an oil leak. Took everything apart and found rear cam seal and crank seal are leaking oil. I need help such as how far do they go in, what is a good tool to use, etc.

Post by **Ozark Lee** » 02 May 2015, 14:51

Just flush is fine as far as depth goes.

...Lee

Post by **erikv11** » 02 May 2015, 19:42

I use my axle nut socket to drive them in, it is just large enough to stop when the seal gets flush. Be sure to clean the outside of the seal and its mating surface in the head/cam cover, you don't want those surfaces to be oily.

BigRed · Post by **BigRed** » 03 May 2015, 09:00

I'm going through this now, too. I did head last job year, and just have been keeping an eye on the oil since. Finally decided to dig in and fix the leaking seals.

I'm confused on what I read as conflicting information:

erikv11 wrote:...Be sure to clean the outside of the seal and its mating surface in the head/cam cover, you don't want those surfaces to be oily.

Ozark Lee wrote:Just flush is fine as far as depth goes.

In the tutorial DIY: 1998 V70 REAR Cam Seals using SKF 11809! written by cn90 it says:

n90 wrote:...4. Next is picture of mating surfaces.
- Clean all around mating surfaces with a clean rag and your pinky finger; no screwdriver!!!
- Apply a thin smear of grease (or oil) to: OUTER Lip (where it mates with the bore) and INNER Lip (where it mates with the cam shaft).
- Now use the 36-mm socket: gently drive the seal in with the hammer. Go VERY VERY SLOW because if you drive the seal in too far ---> leak later (and you just destroy a brand-new seal)!
- Adjust the socket in such a way to drive the seal in equally and just 1mm from the edge of the bore...

So should the new seal be lubricated or not? And if so, where?

As far as depth, I guess the difference between flush and 1mm is negligible. And from flush you could always go to 1mm, but not the other way around.

Post by **erikv11** » 03 May 2015, 09:37

BigRed wrote:... I'm confused on what I read as conflicting information: ...

Welcome to the internet.

. Not trying to be snarky, just saying you are likely to find differences of opinion on the small stuff in many of these procedures, once you start looking at the details.

On the depth: Flush is how they come from the factory, it's what I do and it is straightforward to achieve with a socket that is just slightly larger than the seal. 1 mm is more difficult to achieve but totally fine, be careful that the seal doesn't go crooked as this can make it seal poorly. Some very experienced people install these cam seals all the way in (just push until they stop), apparently without any ill effects, so take that last quoted statement with a grain of salt. For example 2 or 3 mm is unquestionably fine, as long as the seal is straight.

On lubrication: Lubricating the inner lip, where the camshaft spins, is definitely part of the job. I already stated my recommendation on the outer lip, I'm always careful to keep clean (no oil), but maybe you want to see what others say.

BigRed · Post by **BigRed** » 03 May 2015, 10:41

erikv11 wrote:...but maybe you want to see what others say.

I just want my seals not to leak!

Though at this point I think I'd rather just have it back together leaking, than where it's at. I am totally stuck on the front intake seal, and can imagine the exhaust will be worse.

I have tried both the machine screw and the paint can opener method. I went for screw first, but couldn't get it to bite into it. So I tried paint can opener (which had worked for me with much older seals in the past). That mangled the seal pretty good. It seemed to hook in, separating the steel part of the seal from the rubber. The steal portion is peeled away and out, but the rubber portion is still visible in place. So I went back to the screw method. This time I used a small hammer to get it initially biting, then switch to a fresh screw, and that got it in. Grabbed it with locking pliers and yanked awhile. Eventually, the screw popped out, but no movement on the seal.

I guess the worst case scenario, backup plan is pull the cam cover...

Post by **cn90** » 03 May 2015, 10:57

Most mechanics apply some grease/oil on the seal to make installation easier.
- The "Bore" side: a bit of grease helps driving it in.
- The "Shaft" side: oil helps because it prevents the seal lip from folding over, been there done that! Even with oil, I have had a seal that folded over! Go very slow on the shaft side, use your fingernail to go around make sure it is smooth and even.

On installation issue: it is not "flush" vs "drive the seal as far as it goes" issue.
If you look at the factory setup and replicate it, you will be fine.
This is because whatever factory setup is, over millions of revolutions, the rotating shaft and the old seal create a very smooth surface (look carefully at the shaft and you will see the shiny surface where it mates with the seal), so as long as the new seal's lip sits on this shiny surface, you will be fine.

This sealing business is very tricky because we are talking microscopic smooth surface here.

Post by **cn90** » 03 May 2015, 11:02

@BigRed,

I posted some tricks below...

DIY: 1998 Volvo S70 Timing Belt, WP, Cam Seals, SB Overhaul:
https://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/forums ... p?p=364390

BigRed · Post by **BigRed** » 03 May 2015, 12:06

cn90 wrote:@BigRed,

I posted some tricks below...

DIY: 1998 Volvo S70 Timing Belt, WP, Cam Seals, SB Overhaul:
https://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/forums ... p?p=364390

Thanks. I have referenced that many times for jobs between a few cars.

As for this one, I just got the intake seal out and it's not pretty. I don't think any sealing surface was damaged, but the screw did bite into the block. Luckily, it just missed the sealing seam where the block meets cam cover (seems like that would be worse than what happened). I think the screw bottomed out, and pushed the seal out.

Now I'm debating if I should even bother with the exhaust seal. It is leaking, though I think the intake was worse. I just don't want to be in a worse position. There's a lot of oil in the timing belt cover area. I think it is coming from intake seal, and working its way back and behind, then out around water pump.

Not wanting to do this for a third time, I bought OE Volvo Seals and the Volvo Drift 9995449:

: Volvo_9995449.jpg (49.41 KiB) Viewed 2174 times

Though I don't think it's idiot proof. It seems if allowed to bottom out, it would push the seal in too far.

Post by **erikv11** » 03 May 2015, 14:27

BigRed wrote:
erikv11 wrote:...but maybe you want to see what others say.
I just want my seals not to leak!...

I hear ya, I mean it is good to get multiple opinions!

A handful of mechanics will give you a handful of instructions. Some of them will contradict but none of the mechanics will be wring. As long as there is not excessive crankcase pressure the seals will not slide back out once they are installed properly.

I didn't realize you were talking about front seals, those are important to get done well to avoid having to go back in there.

Again, don't stress out about going in too far especially with that tool, a bit too far is not going to ruin things. Straight is important, whereas how far is largely a matter of opinion. But cn90's point is sometimes true, that a new seal installed in exactly the same place can leak if the shaft inside happens to be grooved there.

That screw nick is inconsequential, don't worry about it. You definitely need to install a seal on the exhaust cam, if you skip that then it will leak oil badly.