front end issues after alignment, variable steering?

carboncow · Post by **carboncow** » 03 Aug 2012, 09:10

this is for our 2003 XC70 with 140Kish. One tire size up from spec.

Front end always pulled to right since buying used last year. Steering wheel was also considerably "cocked" to the right about 5 degrees or so. But I've lived with this for over a year with no major concern, I've had other pulls far worse. New tires were installed last fall. We'll the new tire lost a weight and I was picking up a vibration so time for a rebalance and alignment...

So I took it to get an alignment from a Discount Tire chain here in Ohio, good guys. They said the front right was in fact off pretty good (I've got values if there is importance to them) but everything pulled back in straight. They said the front end was tight and suggested no needs.

Drove the car home and when applying the gas strongly the car dives to the right now until the wheel becomes 5% off (not much a pull but the dive does get your attention). When you release off the gas the car jerks back the other way and the wheel is back at dead center! Holy crap they didn't tighten something up right, wouldn't you think? Took it to them and after 5 tech and 2 hours and another realignment (they said it was out of whack again) they state there is NOTHING wrong with the alignment. They did a detailed inspection of the front end and said everything looks fine (no cracked spring, ect).

I was just hoping for a lose bolt from the previous alignment which they assured me was not the issue...and the issue persists. So rather then pointing the finger at them I want to know what you guys think? Their one tech said after an alignment their computer system tells them to hook up the OBD2 system and they reset something in the variable steering...but they don't have a procedure for Volvo. They suggest I contact a dealer to find out if there could be an issue with the steering system...I buy the variable steering concern more then anything. The GM was first trying to tell me the AWD system was engaging and causing the torque steer but I pointed out his poor reasoning on several points.

What experience do you guys have with steering systems needing some type of adjustment, adaption, ect or just being broke in a way to cause this behavior? Is there a failure trend with the rack & pinion that gives this symptom? why did it not show till now if so?

The techs suggested the issue may have been there and the incorrect alignment and steering wheel angle were masking the concern...and now that everything is correct the concern is amplified. They also state they have NEVER seen anything like this and want me to call back ASAP when I've found a solution. I think their comments are censure.

Do you hate it when you take something in to fix and you come back with something else broke...I don't enjoy owning either of my Volvos!!!

I'm out till Monday but look forward to any theories!

Post by **jimmy57** » 03 Aug 2012, 09:34

There is no feature of that car that affects alignment. If it has the variable assist steering feature(you have VIDA and can look at the vehicle configuration and see everything the car has on it), it can not cause the problem you have. Assist level is varied but no input to the steering is done by that system as it applies to that car. If it has DSTC the steering wheel being straight is important because the steering angle sensor has to be in its index point for straight ahead. The fact you've driven it for a time with the wheel not straight with no warning message in info display tells me the car does not have DSTC.
My feeling is an improper set up on their machine or one of the wheel adapters slipped after mounting and set up. The initial set up is pretty foolproof but if the wheel mounted reflector head moves after they do the mount and set up (calibration) then the alignment is off.

carboncow · Post by **carboncow** » 05 Aug 2012, 20:45

No DSTC

Not that I had to travel the weekend with it for 200+ miles I can state that something has to be slipping in the system. The torque generated from a stop with good acceleration tilts the steering wheel 5 degrees to the side while driving straight (no pull) and wither at a shift point ore letting foot of the gas (removal of torque) causes the wheel to find center and thus snap the car over as the wheel returns to zero. It makes me thing there has to be play in the tie rod or similar.

The fact they had to readdress the alignment on the 2nd visit the a day latter says something is off and this corporate alignment place obviously has no staff with real world experience in diagnosing front end concerns other then what the computer alignment system tells them!

I would think the chances of them screwing up the setup for alignment twice is unlikely but posible.

I'm really scratching my head on this one. I'll bug a guy I know who builds suspensions for competition later this week to see his thoughts...I"m not interested in spending $100 on another alignment shop until I can get some for sure ideas.

Post by **jimmy57** » 05 Aug 2012, 23:04

Your symptoms are those of front wheel drive car with toe in not in specs.
My 98 did exactly what you describe after I replaced tie rod ends and set the toe close using chalk line and measuring tape to get it driveable. Toe in being set fixed it.
Camber errors can contribute to this also.

Post by **MoVolvos** » 06 Aug 2012, 01:09

-
Can you Post the before and after Specs? Tread pictures would be helpful also.

Blessings,
BKM
-

carboncow · Post by **carboncow** » 06 Aug 2012, 08:41

I've attached the alignment values, let me know what you think.

We are going to rotate the tires (front to back) after lunch to see if this has any impact on improving the front end, and the goal was to inspect the tread but again (the alignment guys) said they saw no concern with the tread.

Photos should be posted by 4pm EST.

Post by **jimmy57** » 06 Aug 2012, 09:35

Sswap the fronts side to side to check for tire pull. If you do front to back and it is a tire problem it will change but it could still create a pull. If you swap front side to side it is much more obvious and much more of a smoking gun to use with tire dealer for a tire warranty replacement.

carboncow · Post by **carboncow** » 06 Aug 2012, 12:10

OK, took it up to our shop here at work and swapped the tires left to right (on the front) and the same driving concern exists... nothing has changed. 3 guys up there with about 100 years of car wrenching experience could come up with nothing except "toe in/out" guesses. All agreed tie-rods were tight but none were suspensions gurus. Waiting for one guy I know who is a guru who races the Baja 500 and knows a few things about suspension setups to comment...

I think plan B will be another alignment shop try at getting it...

Included photos of each front tire although they show nothing I doubt the photos would do justice if there was a smoking gun of wear issues.

: photo-1.JPG.png (988.77 KiB) Viewed 3105 times

: photo-2.JPG.png (726.57 KiB) Viewed 3105 times

Post by **MoVolvos** » 06 Aug 2012, 13:13

-
If the front tire swap from left to right did not make a difference than how about the front to back rotation? It neither helps try pressuring your tires to Max @ 44 PSI cold and let me know if things change? The photo shows the right front having more treads why is that? Are the rears the same way as the fronts with more tread depth on one side versus the other?

From the looks of it the five degree change in steering wheel may actually be normal at this time especially when you accelerate hard given various factors which I won't elaborate at this time till after you've tried the front to back rotation and Max pressurization. Besides that you seem to drive aggressively and corner pretty hard on right hand turns?

Blessings,
BKM
-

carboncow · Post by **carboncow** » 06 Aug 2012, 13:23

I believe if you are seeing a depth difference it's due to the lighting and angle. I took the right tire looking forward into the garage and the left looking back toward the outside, they are darn close.

Edit: I should add that if there is any wear concern on the right tire it would most likely be do to the previous bad alignment...with that said I'll recheck those depths tomorrow but nobody noticed a concern.

These tires are rotated front to year every 5-6K miles, pressure checked month (never a need to fill) and spend their life either in our small town as slow speed or on the freeway (100 miles daily) or off-road (mildly) at the ski resort I manage at.

As mentioned there was a pretty good pull to the right. Nobody on our end saw much a wear concern in those tires, you got eagle eyes! FYI that these are mildly agressive A/T tires: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp ... ar+A%2FT-S

We'll swap front to rear tomorrow and consider the 44PSI. What do we hope (or not) to see with cranking up the tire pressure? I believe we check these tires at 38PSI.

Can a bad strut/strut bearing create any bad load issues? Since this P2 cars are know to have such crappy failing front ends it makes me wonder!