850r failing emissions miserably (HC and CO) Topic is solved

[Sveedy]

My fix for cracked elbows in the vacuum line system. This one specifically addresses the infamous P0172 elbow.

Tad off topic, but what is the injection set-up you have on the air charge pipe ?
At first I thought water/meth, but with a line going in and out ( tee fitting ), I'm a bit confused....

[JayPea44]

If anyone knows what these are I'd love to know...

1st pic: Fuel line, please replace ASAP
2nd pic: some vacuum/evap elbow
3rd pic: all look like they should be replaced
connector: cannot say, could be anything, possibly headlight motor or wiper or whatever
last connector: looks like a temp sensor possibly, ext. temp, coolant temp, brake reservoir have similar connectors if I'm not mistaken.

Also strongly agree with what was said: O2 might not throw a code. Cat could be bad.
Replacing all vac lines is a start, I'd get a boost/vacuum gauge to see what is going on (if there is any change), but I doubt it is the fix. I had all kinds of leaks on my 850, emissions were fine. Once the leak is bad enough and the idle control can't compensate the car won't run good or at all, in my experience. For sure the easiest thing to fix and start with.
Also doubt MAF, as I think it would run bad, but I am also just guessing here. Maybe you have multiple issues that have various degrees of influence on the issue...

Thanks - I do suspect I have more than one problem for sure. The lines will be replaced as soon as don't worry - that fuel line is number one on the list.

Is there any way to test an o2 sensor? Other than testing if it's short/open. Probably not unless I have a bench test kit. I'm only reluctant to start swapping out the o2 sensors because of cost, and then the Cat because of the cost AND the fact I can't find a direct fit one that is "legal" and will pass emissions in Colorado. But I am also starting to think it could be more this than anything else, as in my experience with other cars, a bad vacuum leak or bad MAF or something similar will make it run awful, and generally speaking it runs ok.

Still going to replace them and see what happens but I'm thinking I'm already in money pit territory...

[WhatAmIDoing]

If anyone knows what these are I'd love to know...

1st pic: Fuel line, please replace ASAP
2nd pic: some vacuum/evap elbow
3rd pic: all look like they should be replaced
connector: cannot say, could be anything, possibly headlight motor or wiper or whatever
last connector: looks like a temp sensor possibly, ext. temp, coolant temp, brake reservoir have similar connectors if I'm not mistaken.

Also strongly agree with what was said: O2 might not throw a code. Cat could be bad.
Replacing all vac lines is a start, I'd get a boost/vacuum gauge to see what is going on (if there is any change), but I doubt it is the fix. I had all kinds of leaks on my 850, emissions were fine. Once the leak is bad enough and the idle control can't compensate the car won't run good or at all, in my experience. For sure the easiest thing to fix and start with.
Also doubt MAF, as I think it would run bad, but I am also just guessing here. Maybe you have multiple issues that have various degrees of influence on the issue...

Thanks - I do suspect I have more than one problem for sure. The lines will be replaced as soon as don't worry - that fuel line is number one on the list.

Is there any way to test an o2 sensor? Other than testing if it's short/open. Probably not unless I have a bench test kit. I'm only reluctant to start swapping out the o2 sensors because of cost, and then the Cat because of the cost AND the fact I can't find a direct fit one that is "legal" and will pass emissions in Colorado. But I am also starting to think it could be more this than anything else, as in my experience with other cars, a bad vacuum leak or bad MAF or something similar will make it run awful, and generally speaking it runs ok.

Still going to replace them and see what happens but I'm thinking I'm already in money pit territory...

You bought an Volvo that's been sitting. So you've been in money pit territory longer than you think (most of us are in the same boat).

When replacing that fuel elbow, make sure to use the same style crimp clamps. Don't use worm or spring clamps, it will leak. Auto parts store probably calls them high pressure fuel system clamps or something of the sort.

Definitely wait to diagnose the MAF, cat, and O2 sensor until after you've done a tune up and replaced all the hoses. I don't know how strict emissions are in CO, but I did get an S70 to pass a sniff test with no cats.

High end scan tools can read O2 data and make diagnosis easier. But I do not know what values would be considered in spec.

[matthew1]

Tad off topic, but what is the injection set-up you have on the air charge pipe ?
At first I thought water/meth, but with a line going in and out ( tee fitting ), I'm a bit confused....

Vacuum: I don't recall the setup, but it mimicked the factory routing. I may have simplified it. The manual boost controller needed a vacuum input, thus the T.
Air intake: it was a wacky "ram air" DIY thing, but I removed it after a time. I did some reading and thinking and I discovered that the vacuum of what the engine is pulling is far more powerful than any natural air collection can deliver.

[JayPea44]

1st pic: Fuel line, please replace ASAP
2nd pic: some vacuum/evap elbow
3rd pic: all look like they should be replaced
connector: cannot say, could be anything, possibly headlight motor or wiper or whatever
last connector: looks like a temp sensor possibly, ext. temp, coolant temp, brake reservoir have similar connectors if I'm not mistaken.

Also strongly agree with what was said: O2 might not throw a code. Cat could be bad.
Replacing all vac lines is a start, I'd get a boost/vacuum gauge to see what is going on (if there is any change), but I doubt it is the fix. I had all kinds of leaks on my 850, emissions were fine. Once the leak is bad enough and the idle control can't compensate the car won't run good or at all, in my experience. For sure the easiest thing to fix and start with.
Also doubt MAF, as I think it would run bad, but I am also just guessing here. Maybe you have multiple issues that have various degrees of influence on the issue...

Thanks - I do suspect I have more than one problem for sure. The lines will be replaced as soon as don't worry - that fuel line is number one on the list.

Is there any way to test an o2 sensor? Other than testing if it's short/open. Probably not unless I have a bench test kit. I'm only reluctant to start swapping out the o2 sensors because of cost, and then the Cat because of the cost AND the fact I can't find a direct fit one that is "legal" and will pass emissions in Colorado. But I am also starting to think it could be more this than anything else, as in my experience with other cars, a bad vacuum leak or bad MAF or something similar will make it run awful, and generally speaking it runs ok.

Still going to replace them and see what happens but I'm thinking I'm already in money pit territory...

You bought an Volvo that's been sitting. So you've been in money pit territory longer than you think (most of us are in the same boat).

When replacing that fuel elbow, make sure to use the same style crimp clamps. Don't use worm or spring clamps, it will leak. Auto parts store probably calls them high pressure fuel system clamps or something of the sort.

Definitely wait to diagnose the MAF, cat, and O2 sensor until after you've done a tune up and replaced all the hoses. I don't know how strict emissions are in CO, but I did get an S70 to pass a sniff test with no cats.

High end scan tools can read O2 data and make diagnosis easier. But I do not know what values would be considered in spec.

Oh definitely, I went into this assuming money pit status. I am familiar I've had plenty of old VWs and Classic minis when I lived in the UK. It's nice to have that feeling back...

Emissions are pretty strict, it's a CARB state so pretty similar to California. This car did pass emissions 2 years ago and was well within limits, so I'm not too concerned. Just got to find the cause of this issue.

Even if the tune-up and hoses don't fix it, they desperately need doing anyway so that job was coming either way. Thanks for the encouragement!

[WhatAmIDoing]

Just had another thought. A failing coolant temp sensor can cause a rich condition. There are topics in the forum on how to test if yours is in spec. Pretty simple and easy to do with a basic multimeter.

[matthew1]

The best route, in your situation JayPea, is to replace the vacuum lines (and then a Stage 0). The reason this step is different than other broken-car scenarios is that you have to replace this vacuum stuff every 10 years anyway. Sometimes less, sometimes more. But yes, DO throw parts at it... vacuum parts.

And you can "read" the age of these vacuum lines and elbows, unlike other parts. You can see they're old.

Cat. convertors and MAF have a much longer life than that, so put those down the list for now.

[JayPea44]

The best route, in your situation JayPea, is to replace the vacuum lines (and then a Stage 0). The reason this step is different than other broken-car scenarios is that you have to replace this vacuum stuff every 10 years anyway. Sometimes less, sometimes more. But yes, DO throw parts at it... vacuum parts.

And you can "read" the age of these vacuum lines and elbows, unlike other parts. You can see they're old.

Cat. convertors and MAF have a much longer life than that, so put those down the list for now.

Perfect, I have the stage 0 kit on the way from IPD, and a PCV replacement kit. Then I just need to buy lines.

I'll definitely test the engine coolant temp sensor too, that's a good call.

I'm still a little confused by the random loose connectors I have but I can look into those once I have a wiring diagram and some more time.

[matthew1]

Be sure your coolant temp sensor is plugged in. It's right at the t-stat.

[matthew1]

Sveedy, I just remembered the vacuum T was for my manual boost controller. Edited above. JayPea sorry for the OT in your thread.