Timing question on '05 XC70

[greg850r]

So I've had an oil leak for awhile now that I figured was a cam seal. I bought a timing belt kit and cam seals from FCP awhile ago and finally had time to look into it today. I lined up the rear of the camshafts and installed the locking tool. It looked like the cam gears were lined up right by the marks I found on the gears but the crank mark a full quarter rotation to the left of the mark in the engine. It was running great this way. Either I'm wrong about the marks on the cam gears or I'm really missing something. Here are some pics in the hopes someone can enlighten me about how the crank can appear to be so far off when the cam lock tool is in place. I used a yellow crayon on the timing gear marks. They appear to be the letter 'M' or 'W' depending on orientation.

cam gears.jpg (301.09 KiB) Viewed 1089 times

crank gear.jpg (141.69 KiB) Viewed 1089 times

Unfortunately I have some time to work this out because it looks like at least the exhaust VVT hub is shot. I remember someone mentioning a dealer they knew would sell the hub for a hundred or so less than what FCP wants and if I could find hubs at a good deal I would just replace both. Can anyone point me in a direction to get these hubs for a discount?

I also broke the cam tool trying to break the retaining bolt loose on the exhaust hub so I will have to buy another.

tool.jpg (353.35 KiB) Viewed 1089 times

I've had mine a long time and used it plenty but this is the first VVT one I've used it on. Searching the forum I see I'm not alone.
viewtopic.php?t=88249&start=30


As always, thanks for anything you can tell me, most everything I do keep this fleet of Volvos running I learned from you guys.

Greg

[jonesg]

But you've circled where the timing marks are not located.
If it runs good then its probably correctly timed , you're just not seeing it.

You can navigate to the timing marks from that photo by starting at the center of the red circle, measure 2 inches to the right .
Then measure 2 1/2 inches toward the engine block, the timing marks are on the very end of the teeth of the crank gear.
The 2 marks are tiny tiny, just tick marks.

See the 11 0'clock position. click on image to enlarge it to see the marks. Also consider those marks are against the engine block, you can only see the very end of them.

https://parts.smythevolvocars.com/p/Vol ... tpEALw_wcB

[cn90]

Here you go...

Timing Belt 2.5T:
viewtopic.php?t=83521

Cam Seal 2.5T:
viewtopic.php?t=100439

[greg850r]

Thanks for the quick responses. I had already read those threads but looked again. On the timing belt thread, page 1, toward the bottom, the pic of the blue intake gear shows the same 'W' mark but mine is straight up and his is at about 2 o'clock. Also, the roll pin in his balancer is at 1 o'clock (consistent with every other thread, pic, video I could find). Mine is at 10 o'clock. I'm reasoning that rotating the motor clockwise a little would make both my marks look like his, but then the back of my cams would not be in alignment anymore. Confusing.

The smytheparts link was very helpful. I am familiar with the cut in the block side edge of a valley on this gear on 850s. I've seen it many times on other jobs so it's what I was looking for. The stamped marks in the part pic were not what I was looking for. Since I cannot see them without pulling the gear, I used a sharpened curved pick to locate them by feel. They are indeed there. They are lined up on either side of the raised rib I circled in red. definitely not where I want them. Could this thing have run the last 2 years with the cams that far advanced?? Hard to feature.

After sleeping on it I decided it was unwise to not crack the 88ft lb center bolt BEFORE I removed the timing belt. That might possibly have saved my tool from some of the stress. I am considering putting the belt back on. Then I could rotate by hand a few more times and look harder at everything. I trust the back of the cams more than marks on the cam gears so maybe I'll have to pull the starter and use the crank lock tool to for the same reason.

[vtl]

Always mark relative position of the belt and all sprockets with an oil marker or white paper corrector, so you could reinstall the belt without much thinking.

The sprockets can be installed "incorrectly". The timing is correct, but the installer didn't pay attention to the timing marks visually positioned in a right way.

Your kit has the crankshaft lock that goes into a whole behind the starter. This way you can be certain the timing is fully lined up.

Untitled.png (3.64 MiB) Viewed 1035 times

[abscate]

Did you pass the timing marks on the cam and then come back 1/2 turn before checking the cam sprocket marks ?

[cn90]

Photo of the crank was blurry.
Can you post a better photo with focus on correctly?

[greg850r]

I did not pass the timing marks on the cam and then come back 1/2 turn. Chalk that up to my first VVT job. It probably accounts for the crank being misaligned.
I have now pulled the starter and inserted the tool, turned the crank clockwise till it went in and then back a little to lock point. With that and the backs of the cams level I think I'm good now. Still think I'll need to re-install the old belt. I'll flip the cam tool over to put the good ears on the other hub into the exhaust cam. With the t belt tight and the crank lock tool in place I should be able to get the exhaust hub center bolt loose.

Sorry about the blurry picture, my lens is cracked from a phone drop and I don't think I can get a good one. The marks are there though and all is lined up now.

I want to message Matthew but was unable to. He has some parts I want. if anyone could let him know I would appreciate it. Thanks guys.

[jonesg]

yeh, in all cases trust the crank alignment, the pulley is keyed to the crankshaft, cannot be out of sync.
the cam pullies are free floating and only friction locked.

I followed this ,

[firstv70volvo]

yeh, in all cases trust the crank alignment, the pulley is keyed to the crankshaft, cannot be out of sync.
the cam pullies are free floating and only friction locked.
...

This I believe is a rare occurrence, but I helped a person with bent valves and it turned out to be the timing belt crank pulley splines had stripped and the pulley lost alignment with the crankshaft (loose or missing center pulley bolt the cause?). With the crankshaft tool in place it should be obvious if the TB pulley position is aligned correctly or not.

Timing gear 1.jpg (184.19 KiB) Viewed 938 times

Timing gear 3.jpg (113.75 KiB) Viewed 938 times