850 Stalling, with a twist...

[RegisWhite]

Hi to all;

I read the very long and good bunch of posts from a few years ago, mostly, dealing with stalling 850s. I didn't see anything specific to my situation, so I hope no one minds if I post for help! If I missed something already posted, please point me in the right direction, and I shall be happy to go there!

I was driving about 45 mph, braked as usual because a car in front of me was turning, and then I stalled. Just, BAM, everything went dead, all the dash lights lit up, the whole nine yards. I DID start it briefly after that, and then it died again just a few seconds later.

It cranks GREAT; it "sounds like it wants to start," but there's nothing there. Now, here's the twist: I just got this 1993 850 not too long ago. BEFORE this stalling happened, I'd changed the fuel filter, and it was fine for a few days. I added a fuel injector/fuel system cleaner, and put in a fresh tank of gas, and it was shortly after that when it stalled out. Did I do something bad by trying to help the fuel path stay in good shape?

Time didn't heal it; I was just outside trying it out, and it did the same thing. It's still very much dead. I saw the fuel relay, and need to do some research to find out how to tell if it's bad. I know there are some threads on here about cleaning the throttle body, so I'll research that, too. But it just seemed like a strange coincidence that it crapped out just after I'd put that cleaner in, you know?

For the record, I've read threads on here, and I'm still not too clear on the procedure for the "See if gas squirts out of the line" deal; I'm happy to do it, but I'd like just a little more of a primer on doing that if anyone could lend a hand. I just want to know that I didn't cause some fatal thing to happen to my new (to me) car...

Thanks for the help;

RW

[jblackburn]

I had that happen once coming up onto the highway when a fuel pump just decided then would be a good time to die. I pushed in the clutch to shift, and the car just died. Lotsa fun.


Do you hear the fuel pump prime if you flip the key to II briefly? If you do, don't worry about fuel pressure (for now). If you don't hear it, I doubt it was anything you did to it; they just die on their own. You may have a bad relay; it is relay 103 in the top fuse box under the hood (under a plastic cover). Jumper pins 15 and 87 on the relay with a paperclip if you don't hear the fuel pump run, and see if that works.

If you've got fuel pressure, you'll want to remove one of the plugs from the engine and have a helper crank it over while you ground the plug against the head and check for spark.

From there, we'll have a little bit more info to go on to help you.

[RegisWhite]

Thanks for the help! That's a lot of good fodder to chew on for a start. When I stalled out, sitting there waiting for the tow truck, I felt like Charlie Brown after he hung the ornament on the Christmas tree, and the tree crumpled over from the weight--"I killed it..."

What am I listening for with the fuel pump priming? What kind of a noise would it make? I'll check it out as soon as I hear back from you, and go from there. You know, if I ever get the bugs worked out of it, I think this is going to be a great car! Because of the paint job, I've christened her the "Vita Valen"--it's Swedish for "White Whale"...

Alright; one crisis at a time, and I'll get it all figured out. Thank goodness for this forum, and for eBay! Back to the deep breathing, anti-stress exercises, now...

RW

[jblackburn]

It's kinda like a "whirr"/"vvvvttttt" noise from the back of the car for about 2 seconds, that will then stop. You may have to try several times, and listen carefully. Roll down the window and close the door to shut up the stupid door chime (or remove it entirely).

If neither that nor the fuel pump relay can get the pump going, sometimes you can take a piece of wood/pipe or something and beat the heck out of the gas tank and convince the pump to work for a short while more.

I've been lucky and never stranded anywhere by my car, but I'd be lying if I said it didn't throw me for a loop every now and then

[RegisWhite]

Now, see, this is why I love this forum! Where else could you come and have someone tell you to take a pipe or stick and whack on a tank filled with violent, deadly, explosive GASOLINE?!

That "Fuel Relay Repair" thread that's just been re-ignited is really helpful to me right now, too. I'm going out to listen for the fuel pump; I'm waiting til daylight to do the "jump the relay pins with a paper clip" thing, though! Someone mentioned that it started smoking when he did that--better to wait til I'm sure the local fire company is awake...

[RegisWhite]

UPDATE:

You know... it is just really hard to tell! I don't think the fuel pump is kicking in. I closed the doors, opened the windows, turned the key to II, and there is some little bit of "ambient sound" that happens, BUT it doesn't sound quite like what you described, AND it doesn't stop after a couple of seconds--it keeps going. It's more of a... like a quieter version of what happens when you turn on a fluorescent light that has a failing bulb? You know that hummy sound? But it's a lot quieter than that.

And no, it wasn't the power antenna going up because I'd left the radio on...

I'll recruit some help to stick a head in the trunk and try it again, but I think the good next step would be to try the fuel relay jumper trick and see what happens. I'll post an update ASAP!

Thanks again...

RW

[jblackburn]

That buzzing is your idle control valve, and is coming from under the hood of the car. Have at it tomorrow; working on a car at night isn't easy.

And don't worry, nothing'll blow up. Well unless you get frustrated and shoot it...

[RegisWhite]

OK. I tried removing the fuel relay, got some wire around pins 15 and 87 IN THE RELAY (right?) and then plugged the relay back in. This was the correct thing, yes? That's what I read in some other posts on here. It doesn't mean to remove the relay, and then jam a piece of paper clip into the empty holes CORRESPONDING with pins 15 and 87, and then try starting it without the relay plugged back in, correct? Just double checking...

Assuming I did the right thing, it still did no good.

Now, this probably means that the next thing I have to do is some fuel pump maintenance, which stinks; BUT: I was poking around in the trunk, removing all the carpeted pieces, and I found this long piece of functional-looking bare wire (not electrical wire, in other words) attached to *something* on the "forward end," and terminating in what looks like a "finger loop" on the other. I know that I need to get a picture of it on here, but I have to figure out how to do that, since you can't just upload a photo from the computer. It has a little plastic part on the "finger loop" part that looks as if it may have broken off of something; and you can "jiggle" it, pull it back and forth, but I have no idea what it's for. Might this have something to do with the problem, or is that just wishful thinking?

It's on the passenger side, looks like it would be attaching to the car in the direction of the fuel door, maybe (?), and nothing seems to happen when I move it, but what the heck is it?


This is the "finger loop" part--you can see the "broken" piece of plastic around it...


This is where it attaches on the left side; the wire is seen coming in at about 4 o'clock


...and this is (almost) the whole thing. Attaches on the left, "finger loop" on the right, just out of frame
Barring some miracle solution like, "Yeah, just bend that wire 30 degrees up, 6 inches from the end, and it'll work great!", is there no real recourse but to roam the forum and find all that I can about replacing the fuel pump, and, hopefully, finding the best, most cost-effective alternative to purchase? And good recommendations for buying a replacement, or is a used one worth the money, or... well, basically, I'm in new territory with this thing, now! Thanks for the help...

RW

[jblackburn]

Remove the relay entirely. Stick a paperclip/piece of wire between 15 and 87, and then try it. If that doesn't work, and you can't hear the fuel pump, it's dead, and I doubt it's any kind of wiring issue. They just do that, some after a few years, some after 20 (like my Honda's did).

The good news is it's super easy to change. There's an access hatch under the carpet at the back right of your trunk. If you're tight on money, head to a junkyard and pull out a used one. Any 1993-2000 850 or S/V70 pump will work. But keep in mind it may die again without warning.

If you can afford a new one, you can go for either a Walbro insert or the Bosch insert. The Walbro's are a bit noisy, but they get the job done and are cheaper. The Bosch is the OEM equipment installed in the cars. Don't waste your money on the whole assembly.

[RegisWhite]

Yes, yes, yes... after the fact, I realized I'd screwed up the "paper clip test"! Jeesh...

So I'll try it the right way come daylight! All of this can be a little crazy-making, but I can't say I'm not pleased with my process, since, a couple of months ago, I would have thought that a "Mass Airflow Sensor" had something to do with inflating my camping mattress...

There's something about this car that makes me want to know how it works, and I have no idea why, but hopefully, if I follow through and keep patient, it'll make me smarter and with more money at the end of the day! I'll post an update as soon as I try the (proper) paper clip test technique.

Still wish I knew what that weird wire thing in the trunk was...